Bullets flying sideways
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Not necessarily. The paper that the targets are printed on looks to be thick, like soft poster paper. It won't necessarily tear evenly. If the bullets are truly tumbling, one edge of the hole can be squared off.
Yendor357
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"Seemed quite hot" is not a standard unit of measure.
I know but I didn't have a chronograph with me
Light paper targets at the indoor ranges, that just hang down from clips.....
can get "un-round" holes in them, do to movement from muzzle blast
and not having a backing behind them.
With "Big muzzle blast shooters on both sides of me, I sometimes have to wait for my 15-20 foot target to stop moving, from air currents !!
Don't you just love it?
can get "un-round" holes in them, do to movement from muzzle blast
and not having a backing behind them.
With "Big muzzle blast shooters on both sides of me, I sometimes have to wait for my 15-20 foot target to stop moving, from air currents !!
Don't you just love it?
If they aren't stabilized it would be because they are not in contact with the rifling as they exit the barrel. That should be easy enough to check.
Is the target mount to a cardboard backing or free hanging? If just blowing in the wind the holes will be jagged or keyhole
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Based on the minimal information provided, the holes appear to be normal for anything but a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter with a sharp, well-defined shoulder.
The target is a piece of cardboard with the old targets attached that slides on a pulley outdoors
venomballistics
Member
doubtful ... keyholing prints in random orientation. These seem to be vertical and uniform in orientation.
The bullet is a 9mm FMJ 124gr FIOCCHI. The gun is a G17 3rd generation. The target distance was 25 yards. Unfortunately I didn't have a chronograph with me but the load seemed pretty hot...
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Typical photo of holes made by FMJ bullet whether cone nose, flat nose, or round nose.
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Fiocchi ammo most often is on the warm side. 
At the Trap range, when someone is not using the proper ammo,
one of the regulars, will shout, that sounds HOT.
Then they are removed, unless someone gives them ammo to finish the flight.
At the Trap range, when someone is not using the proper ammo,
one of the regulars, will shout, that sounds HOT.
Then they are removed, unless someone gives them ammo to finish the flight.
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GypsmJim
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I have a few old Mosin rifles that keyholed because of a bad crown. A simple counterbore fixed the issue.
After having seen a lot of sideways bullets, I can positively say that the holes above are quite normal.
The other issue is the quality of the cheap paper they use for targets. Shoot at a good boxboard or Masonite board and the holes won't look like that.
After having seen a lot of sideways bullets, I can positively say that the holes above are quite normal.
The other issue is the quality of the cheap paper they use for targets. Shoot at a good boxboard or Masonite board and the holes won't look like that.
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They will look very similar if not identical regardless of the paper used. At least, that's been my experience. The backing material behind the target may make a difference.
ezb57
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Fiocchi ammo most often is on the warm side.
At the Trap range, when someone is not using the proper ammo,
one of the regulars, will shout, that sounds HOT.
Then they are removed, unless someone gives them ammo to finish the flight.
If someone tried to remove me from the field because they didn't like the sound of my shells there would be a problem.
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I don't think those bullets are tumbling, the orientation of the slightly oval holes all appear to be identical. I'd say it is more related to bullet shape (round nose bullets make not so round holes in paper) and possibly the target swaying just a bit.
The sound gave away the fact that they were shooting ammo,
that was not allowed on the range.
The RO either asked others to help with proper ammo, or removed them.
Nothing like those new shooters, with auto loaders, that would chamber a round, with the barrel pointed down, and blow up the concrete.
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I don't think so. Try a piece of corrugated cardboard as a target backer. Also bullets that are tumbling tend to be wildly inaccurate. Looks like you're on target.
gwpercle
Member
Unless the soft thick paper target was taped down flat to a backer board ...
You will see the oblong holes and it may not be the bullets ...
simply the bullet cutting the paper as it tries to move out the way .
Was your target taped to a backer board ... if not , repeat the shooting with targets taped to a backer and see what happens .
Gary
You will see the oblong holes and it may not be the bullets ...
simply the bullet cutting the paper as it tries to move out the way .
Was your target taped to a backer board ... if not , repeat the shooting with targets taped to a backer and see what happens .
Gary
Interesting, most "old shooters" I know don't have 20-20 hearing anymore so they would be the last people to ask about the sound of "hot ammo". There are many things that can have an influence on how loud a firearm sounds, but in no way correlate to unsafe ammunition used. I too would be the last one to have an opinion on hot ammo thru sound alone, but I would be the first one to come to another shooters aid if he was being DQ'd on sound alone. Obviously the one item missing in this scenario is to LOOK at the ammunition and/or box it is contained in and try to determine what it is, but to throw someone out of a competition on sound alone is a travesty.
Unfortunately, decisions like this with no substantive proof of wrongdoing are being made every day by ignorant people. Before you throw someone out of a match look at the d*** ammunition for markings and verify what you "think" you are hearing. To do otherwise is nothing more than a S.W.A.G.!
Rick H.
As far as sound goes for hot loads, have you ever wondered why some people call longshot powder loudshot? faster snappy powder sounds different than slower powders. My 40 with longshot powder reloads got that combo banned from a friends farm as the neighbors didn't like the noise.
OP's holes do not look like tumblers, I like paper plates for targets the holes look round thru paper plates.
OP's holes do not look like tumblers, I like paper plates for targets the holes look round thru paper plates.
Shoot some other ammo at exactly the same target material and see what you get.
I suspected keyholing but it was the target backer (lack thereof)
My 100 year+ old revolver shooting 32-20 WCF lead round nose. Usually this gun produced nice holes in Birchwood Casey splatter targets at indoor range (no outside wind).
This target looked like keyholing to me but others said look at your cardboard backer....it is shot out totally in the main center section so you have nothing but air behind your stapled target.
Lo and behold....they were right! New backer, nice and stiff, now round holes.
I learned something.
My 100 year+ old revolver shooting 32-20 WCF lead round nose. Usually this gun produced nice holes in Birchwood Casey splatter targets at indoor range (no outside wind).
This target looked like keyholing to me but others said look at your cardboard backer....it is shot out totally in the main center section so you have nothing but air behind your stapled target.
Lo and behold....they were right! New backer, nice and stiff, now round holes.
I learned something.
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Tumbling bullets make funny holes. These loads always did pretty good in my XDM and M&P pistols. The CZ doesn't like them at all. A couple tenths of a grain more powder cured them of the tumbling.
SGT ROCK 11B
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No. It's just the paper tearing.
Fiocchi ammo most often is on the warm side.
At the Trap range, when someone is not using the proper ammo,
one of the regulars, will shout, that sounds HOT.
Then they are removed, unless someone gives them ammo to finish the flight.
So no 180 grain at 1600 fps 44 mags huh? They "sound" hot.
If possible, consider shooting them at a longer distance. A destabilized bullet gets worse/more obvious.
