bullying?

[G.T. Smith]

I have watched several shows about kids now days bullying someone over the internet or cell phone or social networking. Some of these kids kill themselves. The last one I watched was Dr. Phil, and during the entire show, he or his guests, never once mentioned the fact that as a parent you should have the right to confiscate that cell phone or computer and internet access until they are adult enough to stay away from that environment.
Besides that, what ever happened to standing up for yourself? When I was in the 7th grade, the principle had twin boys that would not leave me alone during recess. My sister that is 3 years older than I took up for me most of the time. One day one of the twins smacked me up side the head, right in the ear from behind with a ball glove. I went totally ballistic on him and his brother. I didn't care if I got my rear end kicked or not. I broke Jerry's nose and blacked Terry's eye. They left me alone after that. I heard the other day that if you punch someones lights out in this town it is an automatic 5,000 dollar fine.
Why don't todays kids realize that the best defense is often times a good offense? Maybe I'm just an old nerd that went to school in a one room school where there was no escape from would be bullies. Had to deal with them then and there.
When my Son was in the first grade he was bullied by a boy that would hit him in the stomach nearly every day and he would get off the bus crying. My son which was very husky but mellow could raise a frog on my shoulder with a punch. I told him the next time the boy was fixing to hit him to tell the boy that he was going to hit him on the end of the nose as hard as he hits my shoulder. He told the boy that, the boy said OK and they became friends and are still friends to this day.
I say if a kid is being bullied and can't stand up for his or herself, then remove the source if it is being done to them electronically. Cell phone, computer or whatever. People seem to act like they are afraid to take anything away from their kids, like they are gonna get in trouble or something. I once unplugged a turntable, set it in the floor, and stomped it into small pieces because it was causing trouble that wouldn't stop between my kid and some others. I didn't get in any trouble. A cell phone or computer would probably be even more
satisfying to destroy.
OK, that is the end of my stupid rant. I just feel sorry for all the younguns out there in this day and age of entitlement and parents that are asleep at the wheel, a real combination for disaster in my opinion. Not just for them but for the future as well.
Pray for our youth,
Gordon

 

[Maximumbob54]

I have never known so many people as I do these days that are so "thin skinned" but then again, I have been a little guilty from time to time myself.

 

[7shooter]

My 8 year old grandson was at a basketball camp this summer when the resident bully thought it would be a good idea to punch him in the nose upon the suggestion of some other nitwit. His nose was bleeding and he was black and blue. My daughter saw what happened and chewed the kid out . The coaches said he was the third kid hit by the bully but they had done nothing to stop the behavior. The bully's mother tried to intimidate my daughter. Big mistake since she is one tough Irish mother and attorney. My grandson felt bad about not being able to fight back since as has been mentioned he knew he would get in a lot of trouble. He waited till football practice started last week and then lined up across from the bully and nailed him with a hard shoulder to his stomach " because that is where it hurts the most ". It completely backed the little jerk off without getting my grandson in trouble. Excellent well executed plan. It was a lot simpler when I was a kid. Somebody hits you and you hit him back harder. Problem solved. Bully's typically have a strong pain avoidance strategy for themselves.

 

[Tunachaser]

I have never known so many people as I do these days that are so "thin skinned" but then again, I have been a little guilty from time to time myself.

Hell, tell someone you don't like Glucks, and see what happens, you'd think you kicked their dog or something.

we are in a sociaty now, where noone is held accountable for their actions, and most people today have their hands held out thinking everyone else owes them a living.

 

[mg357]

as a disabled young man i have had my share of experiences with bullies and had to defend myself a few times i did not enjoy the experience of having to defend myself but by god i did it.

 

[jeffsmith]

I was a handicapped kid in an all white school 40 years ago
So I am more old school more than "modern"

Guess who got picked on
"Sewage" does indeed flow downhill

How would you suggest a Handicapped kid defend himself,
when all that happens is that the Bullies (plural) laugh and run away

I did learn to stand up for myself in various ways
I don't post this for sympathy, I got through it reasonably well

But to suggest simply "defending oneself" ignores a bigger problem

Bullying needs to be dealt with, and not just treated as
"Boys will be Boys"

 

[USAF385]

I try to look at this like was 13 again.

I doubt there are many of us here who can relate to the sort of bullying that goes on today. Having some sort of hurtful rumor about you thrown up on facebook and having the entire school know about it within the hour is something probably none of us have dealt with. Also, take into account the fact that it's far easier to say things about someone from the safety of your room than face to face, and you get even more people jumping in on the bullying. Then off course you have people jumping in and participating just to be on the "cool side".

Imagine, as a 13 year old kid watching your entire reputation / life (as they would see it) seemingly melt away before your eyes in real time.

I'm not trying to say it's so bad they should kill themselves over it, but I am saying it's a lot different these days. The bullying doesn't stop at the school yard or on the bus anymore. These kids are being bullied nonstop.

 

[loutent]

Had a friend whose son was being bullied constantly by the same kid in the neighborhood. The son was a big kid, but not aggressive and he would come home day after day crying because the kid beat him up. My friend (big, no nonsense type fella) finally got fed up - found out where the bully lived and introduced himself to the bullies father, asking for some help on his end. Well, a few more weeks went by with no change so my friend paid another visit to the bullies father, but this time he told him bluntly that the next time his boy came home crying from his son bullying him that he was going to come back and kick the @#$% out of the bullies father. Problem solved. That was about 35yrs ago - don't know if it would work today.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In my day-1950-1960s-"bully"= "punk". The usual cure was to make a bully fight someone larger and tougher than him. IMHO bullies are a good example of that statement attributed to Edmund Burke that "All that is ncessary for Evil to prevail is for Good Men to do Nothing."

 

[feralmerril]

I started 1st grade in 1945 at 4 1/2 years old. Sounds impossible I know, but I did. Mom said she got a invitation from the teacher for that year as I was a big kid for my age. It was war time, mom ran a country general store by herself and I guess she seen school as a baby sitter for me. I also have a 3 year older sister that went to live with a aunt on a farm who`s husband also was away in the service. Things were done different in that day.
Anyway all the way through school I was the youngest in my class`s and most my classmates were 2 and 3 years older than me. While I was as big or bigger than most I also was slower and less developed all through school than my classmates. The 1st 6 years or so I was okay, but from 7th through 10th grade was hell. I got in more fights than I could count. It was a everyday event. All the guys were always 2 to 4 years older than me and faster.
On top of that I never would tell the folks about it. I probley should have but was too ashamed to. My dad had no use for complainers or weak people. At the time thats what I belived, now I know I was totaly wrong about dad at that age. Dad was as big and tough as they come. He was about the same size as chuck conners (Rifleman) or clint walker, (cheyanne). I was scared and ashamed to complain to him thinking he wouldnt understand and belittle me etc. Finaly after learning by hard experiance I got confidence and by some sucess things turned around, but by that time I was a sophmore and almost out of school.
Dad told me a story of when he was a boy. In those days there was a lot of prejudice between german kids and polish kids. Grandpa had dad and john, dads older half brother, hitch up a team and wagon and go to town for something. When they got to town a gang of city polish boys chased them throwing stones at them. Uncle john was about 6 years older than dad. John took a horse whip to one of them and whipped him so bad the kid died! I dont know if grandpa got sued or not, but john never went to jail over it.
Kids can be meaner than hell! To a kid, the event is far more serious than us adults can think or remember. I belive I can remember getting my nose broke four different times back then. Once in grade school I remember a classmate dukeing it out with our old man one room school teacher. Probley the kid, david knight, was about only 10 years old!
When I started 7th grade at a new school, it also was that teachers first day at that school too. She had the 5th through 8th grades. I belive she was the female counterpart to bawney fwank if ya know what I mean. She was mean and heavy with kinda short hair and favored the girls. Now she was a married farm woman, but a rough one!
First thing she did was introduce herself and gave a short meaningful speech: All right you guys. My name is F-- T-- and I am from the farm and can sling a bull around by the tail, and I am not going to take any s--- from any of you guys, understand? True story!
Once she asked harlon schubert the answer to a fraction question. He got it wrong. She screeched NO! Harlon made another wrong guess and she screeched louder, NOOO! Harlon started to laugh and she hollered, whipe that smile off yer face, or I will wipe it off for you! Harlon couldnt contain himself and she slapped him across the mouth so hard it sounded like a pistol shot. Then she proceeded to "whipe" her hand for another secound on his face, took her hand away, and harlon wasnt smileing anymore! Sometime the teachers were worse than the bullys!
They do that today and they would get old in jail!

 

[27145]

This is why kids bring guns to school and kill multiple kids, because they have no outlet. This Country has become sissified. It is normal for boys and men to fight, it is in our DNA.

When I was 5 or 6 the 2 kids across the street from me, a year or two older and bigger, smacked the hell out of me. I went home crying and my father told me, "Go over there and beat them up, if you come home crying I will beat you". That did it, I did what I had to do and there were no problems.

A few years later, I moved and I was in a new school. I had bullies beating me up, so I kicked the hell out of them. We became friends afterward. I was a quiet kid, I never started, but I always finished it. It got to the point where no one in the school tried to hit me, most were afraid of me, because I beat up the "toughest" kids.

On the other hand when I was in boy scouts there was a kid who was mentallly handicapped and the kids taunted him. I took care of those kids and became like a big brother to him, even though we were the same age.

Once I was a cop, I was nice to people and I worked in the ghetto. If I was at the precinct desk I always asked someone approaching the desk "Hi, can I help you sir?". The desk was open to the public, people could walk in 24/7, no door to buzz to let people in. I always treated people the way I wanted to be treated, but God forbid you cursed me out or hit me. Walking a foot post in the ghetto, people tried you, if they thought you were soft, you were in a world of trouble.

Kids should be able to fight, it is nature. They should also be guided by good parents. As far as your character being assasinated on facebook, there is no difference than that happening to you 40 years ago in school. Word spreads.

This is becoming a society of sissies, for lack of a more appropiate word.

 

[nawilson]

This is why kids bring guns to school and kill multiple kids, because they have no outlet. This Country has become sissified. It is normal for boys and men to fight...

Kids should be able to fight, it is nature. They should also be guided by good parents. As far as your character being assasinated on facebook, there is no difference than that happening to you 40 years ago in school. Word spreads.

This is becoming a society of sissies, for lack of a more appropiate word.

I think you're right. I also think that for lack of a definition of manhood, we have the glorification of thug life and a huge number of absentee "fathers".

The introduction of "zero tolerance" rules in schools has fueled it. Two kids get in a fight, and they are both suspended. So, the good kid doesn't fight back, and the bad kid is therefore encouraged to continue the bullying. Were they adults and a police officer arrested both without any investigation, that officer would face disciplinary measures. Because they are students, the teachers handle the issue by punishing both the primary aggressor and the victim.

I also find it worrisome that the teachers/ administrators who are supposed to teach children to think are not doing it themselves. Zero tolerance equals zero thought...

 

[lazy]

I try to look at this like was 13 again.

I doubt there are many of us here who can relate to the sort of bullying that goes on today. Having some sort of hurtful rumor about you thrown up on facebook and having the entire school know about it within the hour is something probably none of us have dealt with. Also, take into account the fact that it's far easier to say things about someone from the safety of your room than face to face, and you get even more people jumping in on the bullying. Then off course you have people jumping in and participating just to be on the "cool side".

Imagine, as a 13 year old kid watching your entire reputation / life (as they would see it) seemingly melt away before your eyes in real time.

I'm not trying to say it's so bad they should kill themselves over it, but I am saying it's a lot different these days. The bullying doesn't stop at the school yard or on the bus anymore. These kids are being bullied nonstop.

I have thought about this myself, and would hate to have had FaceBook as a child. I did have to deal with bullies as a child, got a crash course in how to fight two people at the same time. Had to even deal with one in my 20s while in the Army, wth. I have a 7 year old son that I keep an eye to make sure he is not being one or being bullied.

 

[357larry]

When I was growing up there was always some kid who thought he was the toughest kid around and would pick on everybody. Sooner or later someone would prove him wrong.

When my son was in first grade he was a really good soccer player already. At recess he would make some of the older and bigger kids look bad. One kid who was in the sixth grade didn't like that and started to pick on my son. I always told my kids that if someone was picking on them to remember 2 things, nuts and nose, in that order. My son had hesitations because he would get into trouble at school ( the school had a policy that anyone fighting would be suspended even if they were just defending themselves ). I told my son that if he got into trouble for defending himself that I would have words with the principal about the situation and then I would take him out for icecream.

A couple of days later I got the call from the school that my son had been in a fight. He made me proud as I found out he did exactly as I had told him, nuts and nose. The bully went down on the playground and my son became a hero to a lot of other kids. The principle gave me the rant that the school has a zero tolerance for fighting and that my son was being suspended. I informed the principle that I had a zero tolerance for my son having to put up with the bully and the school for not doing anything about it. I took my son out for his icecream and proceeded to enroll he and his sister in a parochial school. Problem solved.

It is a shame the way public schools are ran nowadays. I really think that the administration was afraid of having to deal with the bully and his mother (single parent-the father was nowhere around and was probably unknown). Too bad you can't just smack some sense into these kids like they did when I was little. Today they would send you to jail and you would be labeled an abuser for life.

 

[red14]

When I was growing up there was always some kid who thought he was the toughest kid around and would pick on everybody. Sooner or later someone would prove him wrong.

When my son was in first grade he was a really good soccer player already. At recess he would make some of the older and bigger kids look bad. One kid who was in the sixth grade didn't like that and started to pick on my son. I always told my kids that if someone was picking on them to remember 2 things, nuts and nose, in that order. My son had hesitations because he would get into trouble at school ( the school had a policy that anyone fighting would be suspended even if they were just defending themselves ). I told my son that if he got into trouble for defending himself that I would have words with the principal about the situation and then I would take him out for icecream.

A couple of days later I got the call from the school that my son had been in a fight. He made me proud as I found out he did exactly as I had told him, nuts and nose. The bully went down on the playground and my son became a hero to a lot of other kids. The principle gave me the rant that the school has a zero tolerance for fighting and that my son was being suspended. I informed the principle that I had a zero tolerance for my son having to put up with the bully and the school for not doing anything about it. I took my son out for his icecream and proceeded to enroll he and his sister in a parochial school. Problem solved.

It is a shame the way public schools are ran nowadays. I really think that the administration was afraid of having to deal with the bully and his mother (single parent-the father was nowhere around and was probably unknown). Too bad you can't just smack some sense into these kids like they did when I was little. Today they would send you to jail and you would be labeled an abuser for life.

My oldest son was very short, not small, but short. He was also a catcher in Baseball. Anyone who knows baseball knows catchers are generally the toughst kid on any team. I always told my kids what Dad told me; Never start a fight, but never run either.

Well, my son had gone through Kindergarten and grammar school with perfect attendance. Never missed a day or absent. He told me a bigger kid was picking on him and he didn't want to get in trouble for fighting. I gave him my dad's advice. Well, big guy pushed him down twice and my son dropped him, and promply got suspended 3 days along with the bully.

But, nobody ever picked on him again, ever.

 

[feralmerril]

Just recalled another event. My first day at high school I was walking up a stairs amoung many kids. A senior purposely dropped his books and told me to pick them up. I was trying to choke him out when a woman teacher attempted to break us apart. In the excitement he caller her a B---h. We both had to go see the principal. The principal at first was going to suspend us both but I stood up for myself. The senior got suspended for about a week. But I dont think I had any more difficulty with him. He had to be at least four years older than me.

 

[DeadAye]

My fav bully story....

There was a kid here in our little town (grown man now) that weighed well over 300 lbs in high school. He was huge (obese), but slow. He and several other kids waited for the school bus in front of our house. There's also a ditch between the sidewalk and the street.

Two of the boys were on the football team and would pick on the big kid right at every morning. I went to both of their houses one Saturday and had a talk with them and their parents - To no avail...

Then one morning after it had rained all night long --
The big kid said *That's enough* and picked up the larger of the two and threw him into the ditch full of water. When he went for the other kid he was already half way down the block.

They never picked on him again

On edit:
The big boy is now a librarian.
One of the other two is serving time, for what I'm not sure - Probably burglary and/or possession with intent.
The other is a meth cooker and is on our PD's short list.

 

[11B Lifer]

Been there

I taught my son to defend those who are weaker, incapable or afraid. He was in HS choir-wonderful singer-protected the kids who were bullied. I grew up being bullied-now I don't let it happen-
My son is now a Captain-paratrooper-3 combat tours-and he protects his troops-do not screw around with his people.

 

[Gamer]

Very good discussion folks. I have often wondered why I hear so much about bullying on the news these days but it seems school systems are trying to protect kids. I’m not sure they can fully do so because I believe the individual must make whatever attempt they can muster to defend themselves. When I was in school from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s both parties in a fight were bounced for 3-5 days unless you didn’t try to fight back and that wasn’t happening for me. Guess this is zero tolerance? I do recall getting paddled a got bit in elementary school, some of that was for fighting but mostly talking. Actually, I preferred the paddle because the punishment was over.

I do understand kids these days live at a faster pace than I did and I feel sorry for them. I grew up at a time when I hunted after school, played sports, listened to the radio and watched a TV we had to turn manually. I do appreciate as someone mentioned, they can’t get away from a bully with the technology they are surrounded by. Home was always my safe place, no matter what happened in a given day I was safe when I walked through the front door and I think that allowed me to face whatever I had to. My Dad was old school, he taught me to stand up for myself. I did and it served me pretty well. For example, I recall getting suspended once and he was fit to be tied at first. However, when I explained I wasn’t going to take any **** from this guy he was ok with it because he knew it was defend yourself or be a victim.

Overall, once I got into senior high most of the fights went away because other guys figure out you won’t take it and you leave each other well enough alone. I never really cared if lost a fight because winning was never the point. It was the act of standing up for yourself and I think that builds character. I do agree that fighting is natural as someone said, it happens in almost every species on the planet. But, I don’t think that makes it right either. However, I do think it’s going to happen. I always tried to help those who I felt like were being intimidated, especially if they were younger or weaker or just didn’t have fighting back in their nature. I wish someone had a magic solution because not all kids have a friend to help them or a Dad to teach them at home.

 

[Onomea]

I think zero tolerance -- suspend both no matter which is right or wrong -- is irresponsible. I think it is just an easy way out for administrators because it requires no judgement. It doesn't teach either kid anything, except that there is no difference between right and wrong.

I got kicked outta school for a day for defending myself. My dad backed me up, too. But I also got into fights out of a mutual surfeit of testosterone, and nobody got suspended. Not a big deal.

And I agree with the comment that with bullies it is not about winning the fight; it's about standing up for yourself. It is liberating, even exhilarating, for a kid, in taking on a bully, to realize that the pain is not so bad, and the fear and shame have gone away.

 

[M29since14]

I think zero tolerance -- suspend both no matter which is right or wrong -- is irresponsible. I think it is just an easy way out for administrators because it requires no judgement. It doesn't teach either kid anything, except that there is no difference between right and wrong.

I would correct that to say that "...except that there is no difference between right and wrong when you are dealing with 'leadership' that has no courage to recognize the difference."

But overall, that is absolutely right, and in this day and age, every gutless school administrator adheres to the principle like it is the direct word of God.

I don't admire kids fighting, and I don't think it should be actively encouraged, but things don't always go according to the "master plan." If I had to choose between a suspension and my son not defending himself when necessary, it wouldn't be a hard choice. A curse on the dimwitted types who don't have to sense to understand that they are doing our kids more harm than good with their mindless policies.