Buying Here for Resale > New Rules

[Chukar60]

Restrict the dealers, and then the members who can afford or wish to spend more time here than others will get the "good deals". The victims will howl anew, but louder because you did not provide for them. The most valuable members here who can afford to contribute their knowledge, experience and time to those of us who are relatively new here will become the new bad guys. Once disenfranchised, we may well lose the valuable knowledge they so willingly and generously share with us.
The victims will not stop until they have gotten their perceived fair share of the "good deals". Before that happens, this forum will have been destroyed in a futile effort at an equity that has never, and will never exist.

LIFE ISN'T FAIR. get over it.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Doesn't effect me in any way, but I cannot help wonder what many sellers think about not being able to sell their posted item for 24 hours??

JR,

I don't interpret this the same way you do. I don't think this new rule restricts selling for 24 hours, only that a dealer must wait 24 hours to buy it. I think most people consider this a collectors' forum and would like to see collectors, accumulators, shooters, hobbyists, etc. have a chance at it before the "upcharge" on Gunbroker, etc.

If a person wants a quick sale and doesn't have any heartburn about selling it to an active dealer, nothing is stopping them from Pm'ing the known dealers and offering it.

I don't think I've ever been in such a hurry or bind that I didn't have 24 hours to spare.

Well neither have I, but it remains to be seen as to where the line is drawn-- I QUITE agree about collectors, but still believe HE has enough to do. I wanted to join the SWCA for years but live in the boondocks and no sponsors here, but more important, due to my wifes health I could never get away to a meeting, thus I was never allowed to enter their CF ADS. It was a sore point for me for years, but of course now doesn't matter. JMHO

 

[BCDWYO]

I for one would be interested in hearing a comment on this thread from the "offending" dealers. I wonder if they are even aware of this discussion.

 

[O2Guy]

The Brady Campaign has to be smiling at some of these comments.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The owner of a board is the Dictator thereof. They (Lee in this case) may set whatever rules he wishes ( or arbitrarily ban anyone for any reason or no reason). The owner may decide the tenor and theme of their board. Or in this instance , Lee may decide if he wants a discussion board for T all the listed goals) involving S&W , be primarily a wholesale resource for dealers , or sonmthing inbetween.

Presuming it is somthing inbetween , but leaning to the former , there are a cpl of commonly used steps.

Have a minimum post count to be able to enter the classifieds ( enter the sub forum). 50 seems common around the 'net for restricted areas, but this board operates at a higher plain than most , so 100 posts wouldn't be out of line.

Have a seperate section, and seperate identifier/ color code/ whatever for Dealer/ Industry/ Partner/ Whatever Paid memberships. Usually on most boards this involves the Pros selling rather than buying , but at the least interested parties could PM them offering to sell , or seeking an offer.

And yes , many people will sell on specialized enthusiest , or locality based generalized enthusiest sites on purpose instead of advertising nationally , or going to auction. The automotive Blue Book lists three price levels for everything : full retail , dealer trade in , and private pary. Many people prefer to buy and sell in the private party based world.

But out of all the possabilities , ending classified for firearms is far from the worst option.

Addmittedly I am a 'puter Luddite , but I do 99% of my forum'ing , and internet generally on an antiquated crackberry. And I can assure you , no Tap whatever is needed to participate , just plain old web access. So yeah deactivating that automated whois on classified wouldn't stop anyone from participating , and bring it back to a level field for live humans.

As to the initial proposal, it sounds great at first, BUT

It would be unenforcable generally, and there are enough semi-pro unlicsened Flippers , and 001 holders who are either basically hobbyists generally , or at least in regards to collectable S&W , that it would achieve the goals anyway.

 

[Onomea]

The Brady Campaign has to be smiling at some of these comments.

I think the forum is more along the lines of a private club. With private ownership and management. Voluntary membership.

If a private club said members need to wear a jacket and tie to dinner, you could decide if you want to go along with that. If the USG said everyone in the US needs to wear a jacket and tie to have dinner, that's different. No place else to go.

I think the concept under discussion is how to provide a classifieds section that appeals to, is in keeping with, the values of the forum.

A better analogy than the Brady Campaign would be to a private shooting range, in my opinion.

 

[O2Guy]

My comment meant that legal gun owners are trying to place restrictions on who can buy a gun, for what purpose the person is buying the gun, waiting periods, or doing away with selling (on this forum) guns. Legal gun owners are arguing among themselves, that what the anti 2A wants. You know, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Yes, this is a private place and the owner can do as he wishes. But, a few people got sand in their drawers because someone got a gun that they may have wanted. I don't recall in any of these posts where a buyer did anything illegal or violated any forum rules. All this has done is to get a group of people with a common interest to become divided and argue. Ever hear the phrase "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"?

 

[Onomea]

Larry, I think your "on this forum," is key. If this were a discussion of who and how people can purchase guns per the feds and state law, I would agree with you. But this is just one small niche of the gun community here.

While I am not in the market for any more guns at this time, I sympathize with those members who enjoy, in their leisure time, coming to the forum to share their enthusiasm for S&Ws and other firearms, and who like to take an occasional look at the classifieds. Maybe buy a gun from another forum member. I understand how it frustrates them that a few dealers, flippers, whatever, grab up most of the good deals.

I think Lee's idea, with this thread, is to solicit a wide variety of opinions from the membership about how this little niche of the gun community ought to run, so I am just chuckin' mine into the mix.

Edit: Here is a thought. Back when I used to follow the classifieds, some members who were selling would post, "If I don't sell this by TBD date, I will put it on gunbroker." I always thought that was a friendly way to give forum members a first go at the gun.

 

[pace40]

I think the real answer lies in Lee's opening post.

Since this discussion specifically relates to the board for sellers to sell their guns and since, as Lee boldly stated in opening,

I want you all to note that I have had NO complaints from sellers about this issue.

I think we have 4 pages of spirited, but wasted bandwidth.

 

[alwslate]

I don't see how Tapatalk is the issue. It's free, get it, use it, enjoy it. People work, Not everyone is retired and can stare at a laptop or desktop computer all day. It's 2014, technology rules.

The issue being discussed is flipping guns bought off the forum. Not Tapatalk.

All Tapatalk is, is a app to let people use the forum on there IPad, Tablet, or Smart Phone.

I work long hours and Tapatalk is how I use the forum. So should I just quit the forum, when Tapatalk is Banned?

Sincerely

Confused in WI

Most people can find a little time each day to use their
computer. If you're saying the forum is meaningless to you
without being able to access the classified ads in minutes
with Tapatalk I guess you've answered your own question.

 

[vipermd]

Onomea in post # 188 best described what I thought this forum was. A Private Club. You have some skin in the game to learn, voice your results good /bad with model (z), find (pre-model XYZ) that you crave. I also can appreciate the fact that certain technology allows you to find something that you are looking for, I did not realize there was a "problem" till this thread, I just figured I was slow, did not "dedicate" enough time? The classifieds were a bonus, people who had knowledge,access to specific/unique S&W's. I hate rules, I do not need to be told not to say $%^@ to Ladder13 or Speedgunner, ( If I want to say something to them I will email off the forum). Life is not fair, this is not LIFE, this is an artificial environment setup up for our pleasure as such controls can be placed on it. Maybe feeling like it's an old gunshop with a potbelly stove, with good coffee and friends is what most people are looking for, I was! If that means limiting the cost/benefit ratio so be it, that was not the intended purpose of the forum. If a few dealers/flippers/etc do not like it, they will find somewhere else. The items put up for sale will still get sold, maybe in an hr, day, week. As for the " offenders" leaving what is lost?, when their only contribution is I will take it. Be Safe,

 

[pjpjr]

I think the real answer lies in Lee's opening post.

Since this discussion specifically relates to the board for sellers to sell their guns and since, as Lee boldly stated in opening,



I think we have 4 pages of spirited, but wasted bandwidth.

Bingo, it appears the buyers are the folks with the issue. As long as the transactions are BATFE legal what difference does it make who buys or sells here? Regarding the suggestion of some, allowing us to choose our buyer, meaning telling a person who has committed to buy your item at your advertised price then telling them you are choosing another buyer because you think they are a "dealer" and will realize a profit is internet classified forum suicide! Leave the forum rules stand as they are, we don't need anymore regulations or club rules!

 

[Glynngaddy]

Everyone on this forum just like in life is not equal, some get deals and some don't. If I miss a deal because the guy before me looked at the classifieds 3 times to my 2, well good for him. I can't stand people bickering over guns. The forum is nice and would hate to see a few select people ruin it over trying to make a quick buck flipping. My .02 cents

 

[Bodiebadman]

Gun Sales

I too find this be a thorny issue. I note that, like some others here, I am a resident of California. Therefore, I am precluded from buying just about ANY FIREARM for sale on this forum UNLESS I buy from another CA member. My interests are primarily in P&R guns and a few of the early semiautos. NONE of these are on the current list of guns approved for sale in CA. There is, however, an exemption for private sales among CA residents. You still have to go through an FFL, pay for the background check and pay sales tax to the dealer handling the transaction (and the waiting period, of course).

I would think that limiting any member to X firearm purchases per year is reasonable. The forum is not supportive of an auction system but I suppose another alternative would be to use an OFFER system, effectively turning the current system where the seller lists a price upside down to a system where the seller selects an offer (and can research their buyer's background is they so choose).

I also don't believe that having an FFL makes a forum member a dealer - it's their track record that speaks to that.

 

[ladyT]

I think this question is about the function of the classifieds section. Is the classified section to be used for transactions between members or is it to be used for commercial transactions.

If the classified section is open for commercial transactions then those commercial members should be badged so others will know who they are dealing with and commercial members must pay for the privilege of accessing the classified section. I would also suggest that a limit on the number of purchases any single commercial member could make in a certain time period.

Thankfully this is not my headache

 

[A10]

I think we have 4 pages of spirited, but wasted bandwidth.

I couldn't disagree more. Lee runs this forum for the benefit of the members, and any time he sees a need to change rules he runs it by us for our thoughts and opinions. Lee ultimately makes the call, but it is good of him to ask us about our thoughts.

Debate is seldom a waste of time.

 

[old bear]

As an active member of this forum both in post count and other means, I have to say I support the new rules 100%. I understand our great country was and still to some degree still is a free market society.

Yet, I believe that most if not all of the “fast gun” "I’ll take it" violate the spirit of the classified ads and the forum in general. And to the several of you who have taken advantage of this system, shame on you, and I sometimes wonder how you can look yourself in the mirror every morning.

My only question is, how is this going to be enforced?

 

[ringo1597]

For what it is worth.

A month or so back, a desirable Police Marked Smith popped up for sale on this forum, which I did not see. 3 forum members, one from Wisconsin, one from California, and the other I cannot remember where he is from, all sent me e-mails making me aware of the gun.

All 3 of these forum members knew I would buy this gun, all took the time to make me aware of the posting. All 3 could of purchase this gun themselves, then flip it to me making a fast few hundred bucks, but all 3 did not!

I have never met these gentlemen, odds are I never will, but all 3 did this for me to get this gun into my collection. What other forum has these kinds of folks looking out for each other.

I make many shows, I cannot find Smith's without traveling and looking for them. I hear all the whining going on from grown adult men about prices and such. So much to the point I have made a sign which I place on my table. "We got a $5.00 dollar fine for Whining."

 

[jlrhiner]

If I remember correctly, the classified section was started so those of us that talked regularly had an option to list a desirable gun for someone else who appreciates it. This was never intended to be a store. But, as always, greed rears its ugly head.

As far as sellers who come here just to sell, I'm getting a little tired of the "rare", "minty", "only had 250 rounds through it NIB" crowd. Prices are jacked up and targeted towards folks who don't know what their looking at. If the post has had 5000 views and no offers, well, you get the idea.

My opinion, if it isn't supporting the day to day operation of the Forum, change it as you need to. There aren't any deals for folks who can argue about the style of screwdriver included in the box with a Pre-27. Just for the guy who's going to double it and use the provenance provided by us.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I prefer to sell face to face, as I can't take a decent photo to save my life. I want a buyer to be 100% pleased and happy with what they spent. Shipping has gotten costly here, with most LGS charging $25.00-$50.00 to handle a transaction, plus shipping and insurance. Many buyers feel the seller should bear this cost, as well as give a three day period to mull over the purchase or search for a better deal on the same item.

I have traded and sold firearms where shipping was involved. I have always been pleased with what I received in trade. My happiness was the result of the honesty and integrity of the vast majority of members on this board. I do feel that those who are here to buy and sell strictly for profit undermine those two qualities.

The thought of putting a gun on an auction site makes me sick to my stomach. Another S&W that will be sold beyond the price of the ordinary man, much less slamming the door on a young enthusiast with extremely limited funds. This is the reason I still have my S&W 57, I guess. I am O.K. with that.

I enjoy spending other people's money, helping someone find an item they have been searching for is satisfying to me. Seeing them pay out the behind for it is awful. A $5.00 part shouldn't cost $35.00 if we, as a group, can locate the piece. That concept is a large part of the forum. Profiteers will ruin that, this very thread proves it.