Buying M&P Sear??

[Tim_Ballz]

ATEI makes sears that are AWESOME .. where Chris Costa na dseveral of the top trainers are now sending their M&P's and Glocks for work.

The ATEI trigger is awesome. There is no arguing that. The only reason i did not send my gun to them was; the last time i contacted them, they said that is was a 4-6 week wait. I just didnt want to wait that long.

As far as the Apex sear. I had it about 5 or 600 shots and took it out. I want a huge fan of it Personal preference. I used the Apex sear as a guide to modify the stock sear. I dont like the feel of the "sear break." (I dont really want to get into the Apex argument) The modification i did on my stock sear i perfered over the Apex

 

[robkarrob]

Tim Ballz question

Tim Ballz

How about sharing you mods to the sear/trigger pull on the M&P's. I have the Apex, and like it, but if it can be improved upon, why not. I have the tools/equipment. Just need some direction and or photos/videos. THANKS

Bob

 

[danysw]

I have long fingers and personally don't like the way Apex sear shorten the trigger. That's why I did the Burwell sear job only on the back part of the stock sear but not filed the front. On my HD (9 Full) I filed the back part of the sear and in my EDC (9 C) just polished it. Added the USB, trigger and sear plunger springs. Now I have a long travel, non-gritty, smooth trigger with 4.4 pounds on my M&P 9 Full and a 5.2 pounds trigger on my M&P 9C.

 

[C4IGrant]

Most of the above posts reinforce my decision to purchase a Apex sear and keep the original in the gun box. Same for the striker block. It is usually much easier to get aftermarket parts than factory stock.

Good idea. I cannot tell you how many times an owner needed to send their M&P back for an issue, had modified the factory parts and is now SOL.


C4

 

[robkarrob]

I made before and after videos of my Apex install. I found the Apex did move the break point back, but by only 1/16 inch. I have large hands and the more I can move the break point forward, the better.

I am going to experiment with lengthening the trigger bar. If I can make it 1/8 inch longer, I can remove almost all the take up. This would move the break point forward almost 1/2 inch. I would have to cut the bar, add filler and weld it back up. Not an easy task with the heat treated, allow trigger bar. That is going to be the toughest task. Then I would have to grind off .010 to .015 off the leading edge of the blocker tab, on the trigger bar. This would then allow the striker blocker safety to be fully functional. I would also have to grind off about 1/16 inch off the trigger bar tail, to get the manual safety to work.

My trigger pull was 4 pounds 4 ounces after the Apex install, using the stock springs. I installed a stock Glock trigger spring and the pull is 3 pounds 10 ounces. I have a little over 1/32 inch of over travel with the Apex. I plan to restrict that down to less than 1/64 inch. Slowly it keeps getting better.

Bob

 

[danysw]

I made before and after videos of my Apex install. I found the Apex did move the break point back, but by only 1/16 inch. I have large hands and the more I can move the break point forward, the better.

I am going to experiment with lengthening the trigger bar. If I can make it 1/8 inch longer, I can remove almost all the take up. This would move the break point forward almost 1/2 inch. I would have to cut the bar, add filler and weld it back up. Not an easy task with the heat treated, allow trigger bar. That is going to be the toughest task. Then I would have to grind off .010 to .015 off the leading edge of the blocker tab, on the trigger bar. This would then allow the striker blocker safety to be fully functional. I would also have to grind off about 1/16 inch off the trigger bar tail, to get the manual safety to work.

My trigger pull was 4 pounds 4 ounces after the Apex install, using the stock springs. I installed a stock Glock trigger spring and the pull is 3 pounds 10 ounces. I have a little over 1/32 inch of over travel with the Apex. I plan to restrict that down to less than 1/64 inch. Slowly it keeps getting better.

Bob

That's exactly what I like to do but my armorer skills are way too far for doing such a job. Please keep us posted about your progress.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I did a custom trigger job on my Shield. I ground down the trigger bar ramp on the sear. I need a stock sear to keep incase i have to return it for warrentee purposes. Does anybody know where to get one?? The only way i found one, is included in a sear block and all websites are backordered.
Thanks for the help.

You may want to not be removing ANY material from the sear engagement to make a "custom trigger job."

Doing so GREATLY increases the likelihood that the engagement will not stay engaged, which will result in the pistol "decocking" itself (remember, the S&W M&P, like the Glock, has a pre-loaded striker that is very near the full cock point). Actually, the S&W M&P is nearly fully cocked, while the Glock system is partially pre-cocked. Thus, the M&P trigger action merely trips the sear allowing the firing pin to fly forward. On the other hand, pulling the trigger on the Glock finishes the cocking of the striker and then releases or trips the sear allowing the firing pin to fly forward. In both designs, pulling the trigger deactivates the automatic internal mechanisms firing pin and drop safeties.

Decocking because you remove too much material, thereby allowing the sear engagement to trip the sear and allow the firing pin to fly forward on its own without pulling the trigger is safe, in theory, but only if the firing pin safety is working properly.

Naturally, if it decocks itself in such manner, then it will not fire until you rack the slide again. This is a disastrous result in a self-defense situation.

It is possibly dangerous and at the very least embarrassing if it decocks itself due to a bad "trigger job" and the firing pin safety does not work as it should. To paraphrase, the famous Mae West quote, "Was that a firecracker in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

The Glock armorer's course and manual warns of this and they have a specific specification for the minimum engagement between the sear and the striker.

As the pistol in question is not a "target pistol" in the sense of four minute of angle accuracy like a bullseye pistol (two inch groups at 54 yards (50 meters), the minor little advantage you get from a "trigger job" on such pistols is greatly outweighed by the dangerous situation created if you remove material from the engagement surface. I would strongly encourage you to restore the pistol back to factory original specs.

 

[Tim_Ballz]

You may want to not be removing ANY material from the sear engagement to make a "custom trigger job." I would strongly encourage you to restore the pistol back to factory original specs.

I understand that when you remove material from anywhere on a gun; it is dangerous and not something that should be done by most people. (I can read an owners manual too) I have a big mechanical backround and this is very similar to what i do for a living. Im no expert gunsmith, by no means, but i do have a lot of extra time on my hands for research and trial and error.

I love the reset on the shield and i dont mind the heavy 6-7 lb trigger pull. Its a carry gun i dont want to change any of that but the post travel was bothering me. After removing some of the post travel, my groups were much tighter at resonable distance. I know its a carry gun and i wont be shooting any "bad guys" at 50 feet but i still want to know that i can if the need were to present itself.

I found this like on youtube: that go me started in the right direction: S&W M&P Pistol Series Trigger Job.mp4 - YouTube

If you look at the attached picture. The top sear is an unmodified Apex sear for the M&P. The bottom is the factory trigger that i modified myself w some guidence from the above video. If you look at the red arrows it appears that the Apex sear "removes" more material than i have. I slowly removed material from this point (on the stock sear) and reassembled the gun about 8-10 times until i found a spot i was comfortable with. What this modification does is eliminate some (about half) of the post travel of the trigger. I could have easily removed more but i was happy with where i was.

The white arrow is where the trigger bar will end up at the point the gun will go off. This area was unmodified. making it exactly the same height, (measured w a micrometer). So nothing has changed except where the trigger bar first engages with the sear.

I have found that the slight "hump" (green arrow) that the Apex sear removes is what causes the trigger feel that im not a big fan of. Removal of material at this area is what will cause the most danger. I left this area alone, just smoothed it out and buffed it.

Basically all my mild trigger job does is remove some of the post travel and does not effect any other characteristics of the the trigger feel. I do not think that any of my modifications i have done effected the safety or the reliability of my gun. I have over 1,100 rounds and countless snap caps with no problems at all. I had a lot of problems jerking the trigger when i first got this gun.

 

[robkarrob]

I saw that video back in May, but since you can not get parts for the Shield (S&W not selling internal parts) I went and ordered the Apex sear and blocker, so I had back up stock parts. My Apex install was easy and using the stock Shield springs I had a short, 4.25 pound pull, with a short reset. Put in a Glock trigger spring and the pull is now 3lbs 10 oz.

I have now improved the over travel. I drilled two 1/16 inch diameter by 1/16 deep holes in the bottom back of the lower trigger. These holes are for a stronger hold of the JB Weld. I ruffed up the surface and molded JB Weld into the low back of the trigger. I carefully filed the JB Weld down to remove the over travel.

I have next to no over travel. Just enough to make sure the sear releases the striker every pull. I have 1/16 inch sear pull to break, with just a little over 1/16 inch reset. After take up I have 1/16 pull, bang, 1/16 reset and 1/16 pull, bang. Short and sweet. Yes I do use the manual safety.