I get confused by this all the time. When some says "Clays", do they mean "Universal Clays"? I know there's an "International Clays" out there too.
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Bye Bye Unique
- Thread starter doc540
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I get confused by this all the time. When some says "Clays", do they mean "Universal Clays"? I know there's an "International Clays" out there too.
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Cdog
Member
I keep a bit of Clays around too, but it's too fast, too limited, and the low load densities in large cases are something that I just can't be comfortable with.
I batch load, visually inspecting each tray full before seating. Those powders that merely dust the bottom of the case are too hard to judge.
I agree with the great cleanliness and accuracy Clays delivers, but for me its low density and narrow velocity range are large negatives.
I used Unique for many years, but had a couple of local shooters introduce me to Universal and I ain't looked back.
The smoke never was the problem, I expect that with any cast bullet. It was the flakes freckling my face and firearms that I got tired of.
Back when I was using Unique I rarely loaded much below max for anything, so it wasn't light loads and crimps causing my issues.
I'm told Unique's been updated to combat some of the complaints and it may be less of a freckler now?
For those that love Unique, that's great, but I fail to see why that would keep you from trying a pound of Universal?
I know how much I like Universal, but if someone shows me another competitively priced powder that may be better suited for my app, you can bet I'll try it.
jackpearl
Member
Just to clarify, this is just plain Clays. If you check out the IMR loading data site, you will see it listed.
I burn a lot of Unique in various calibers and have for years. [45] What I have noticed is Unique on the too light end of loading is dirty and at mid range a lot cleaner. When there is enough to expand the case in the cylinder it is not as bad. By the way, I will buy any you have!!!!
Well, I do declare! Give up? Come on! Unique is just about one of the most flexible and useful propellents on the market. Dirty? It all depends on what you are loading and how you are loading it. For your purposes, W-231 may be a better choice. Hopefully it will give you the results you seek.
Doc;
If you are running low or medium loads you might need to use the faster powders with the lead bullets for a clean burn.
If Jhp start with unique or w231 for medium loads and faster.
As a note, Universal Clays has MORE energy than Unique and
LESS is needed to get the same velocity with test in my 686
six inch......don't think that it is the same, per volume, when loading.
Found the same thing while loading 12 Ga 1 1/8 oz trap loads. Universal bushing "I" at 22.6 for 1215fps and with
Unique bushing "L" gave 22grs..........that relates to 17grs vs 19.4grs of Red Dot in volume..... but I will agree with the
others that UC meters better and is cleaner at the higher loadings.
If you are running low or medium loads you might need to use the faster powders with the lead bullets for a clean burn.
If Jhp start with unique or w231 for medium loads and faster.
As a note, Universal Clays has MORE energy than Unique and
LESS is needed to get the same velocity with test in my 686
six inch......don't think that it is the same, per volume, when loading.
Found the same thing while loading 12 Ga 1 1/8 oz trap loads. Universal bushing "I" at 22.6 for 1215fps and with
Unique bushing "L" gave 22grs..........that relates to 17grs vs 19.4grs of Red Dot in volume..... but I will agree with the
others that UC meters better and is cleaner at the higher loadings.
I am telling you a heavy or heavier crimp can make a world of difference with light to moderate charges of medium burning pistol powders like Unique. Sounds like a lot of you guys have this mind set that it's all about size of the charge or powder brand when there is more to it than that.
Once the bullet has left the barn the lid is off and so is the pressure and almost all medium burn rate or shotgun powders will fail to burn or perform at their best. Combine this with the air-gap from cylinder to barrel and it's not hard to understand really.
Regards
Once the bullet has left the barn the lid is off and so is the pressure and almost all medium burn rate or shotgun powders will fail to burn or perform at their best. Combine this with the air-gap from cylinder to barrel and it's not hard to understand really.
Regards
Doc try 8.0-8.2 W231 for a good mid-range load with cast SWCs in the
44 mag. I like 8.2 grs with a magnum primer under a 250 gr cast SWC
in my 4" md 29-2. I think your load of 7.0 grs is a bit light for clean
burning.
44 mag. I like 8.2 grs with a magnum primer under a 250 gr cast SWC
in my 4" md 29-2. I think your load of 7.0 grs is a bit light for clean
burning.
Sometimes... you low and slow is the way to go. But sometimes the price is a bit of smoke... soot. I've used Unique in everything from .38/.357 right on up through .45 ACP and .44 Magnum. In most instances it has produced excellent results. But, in light loads there has been the smoke of which you write. I always figured it didn't matter. Regardless of what I was loading, after a trip to the range I always expected to do a bit of cleaning. It was just routine.
Of course I might be biased. I've used Unique in pistols, revolvers and even rifles for the simple reason the loads using it have given excellent on target results. My absolute favorite short range (100yd.) cast bullet load for my 1903 Springfield uses a little 165 gr. bullet over 8.0 gr. of Unique. It shoots like a .22 LR match load. When fired there is a slight puff of smoke and a hole appears usually in either the X or 10 rings of a SR-1. It is my most used load for vintage military rifle matches. There might be some other powder that would not produce that little puff of smoke. But the Unique gives such outstanding scores with that rifle that I figure I'll just live with the soot. It's a small price to pay. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
Mule88
Member
Ive replaced Unique with Universal Clays several years ago, universal does burn cleaner and more accurate for me.
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