C&R FFL and the USPS

[Beemer-mark]

To add to the confusion
Anyone can ship a long arm to anybody in the same state (if state legal) via the PO. Anyone can ship a rifle to a FFL in any state via USPS. A 01 FFL can ship via USPS a C&R long arm or handgun that's meets the C&R requirements directly to a 03 FFL licensee.

I don't understand why people say you can ship FedEx 2nd day, the FedEx web site states -
"Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service."

Priority overnight service is about $75~80 without insurance.

 

[DWalt]

"Anyone can ship a long arm to anybody in the same state (if state legal) via the PO. Anyone can ship a rifle to a FFL in any state via USPS. A 01 FFL can ship via USPS a C&R long arm or handgun that's meets the C&R requirements directly to a 03 FFL licensee."

I agree that shipping a long gun by USPS is technically legal (assuming BATFE regs compliance). However, if you tell the clerk what's in the box, I'll guarantee you 100% he will not allow it. I have a friend who occasionally ships long guns via USPS - he uses an oversized box and does not say what's in it. He told me that the only time he was asked the contents, he simply said "Machine Parts."

Regarding long guns, I have not had any problem in shipping them FedEx GROUND. I do not know about handguns, but I think that the only way FedEx will do it for an individual is via the very expensive Priority Overnight service. I seem to remember reading that was mainly because it is the only secure way for them to ship. Handguns seem to frequently go missing if sent by other FedEx shipping options.

 

[alwslate]

I have had a C&R FFL for several years. I use mine for the purpose of
collecting not "engaging in the business". C&R holders are allowed to
dispose of guns from their personal collection but not deal in firearms
for business purposes. In my experience with using Priority mail flat
rate boxes local Postal clerks are only concerned with two issues;
any liquids inside? No. Any hazardous materials inside? No. Good
to go.

 

[OldDominion]

"I don't understand why people say you can ship FedEx 2nd day, the FedEx web site states -
"Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service."

My mistake, thank you for the correction. It has been awhile since I used Fed-Ex to ship a 1926 to Dave Chicoine for service, and I had to use overnight delivery. And yes it was expensive.

 

[1blindref]

I have had a C&R FFL for several years. I use mine for the purpose of
collecting not "engaging in the business". C&R holders are allowed to
dispose of guns from their personal collection but not deal in firearms
for business purposes. In my experience with using Priority mail flat
rate boxes local Postal clerks are only concerned with two issues;
any liquids inside? No. Any hazardous materials inside? No. Good
to go.

I'd be worried about two things if I were to ship a handgun via USPS having only a C&R license.

First, and most importantly - breaking the law by taking a handgun into the Post Office.

Second, if the package gets lost, is the Post Office responsible for reimbursement since you weren't allowed to ship the gun in the first place (assuming you insured the package).

 

[03clyde]

I'd be worried about two things if I were to ship a handgun via USPS having only a C&R license.

First, and most importantly - breaking the law by taking a handgun into the Post Office.

Second, if the package gets lost, is the Post Office responsible for reimbursement since you weren't allowed to ship the gun in the first place (assuming you insured the package).

You betcha.

 

[deadin]

I told myself that I wasn't going to get involved in this old "argument" that surfaces every now and then and then is beat to death without any final resolution. (However, it looks like I failed.......)

One question...... How do those saying that it's perfectly "OK" for a FFL03 to send or receive a C&R handgun via the USPS get around the following Postal Regulations from the DMM601?

12.1.3 Authorized Persons

Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, a licensed importer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 12.1.3c. through 12.1.3e.
12.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee

Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 12.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 12.1.3a through 12.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee’s official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 12.1.3c through 12.1.3e, Authorized Persons.
12.1.5 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
12.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer or importer need not file the affidavit under 12.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer or importer of firearms. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and components of handguns under 12.1.2d, are being mailed in customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers or importers of firearms.

 

[1blindref]

I've got a C&R License and all I'm gonna say is that it's much cheaper to pay UPS or FexEx shipping fees, than it is to hire a lawyer

 

[robertwhite]

I did not send it. I received it.

Cliff Notes: A guy with a FFL 03 C&R received a C&R in a shipment. It is legal.

You guys can try to make it very complicated; but the laws are very simple to me.

I am a collector. I do not trade for business reasons. I trade for what the ATF FFL 03 C&R calls a "collector transaction".

I am an AFT FFL 03 C&R. You guys tend to make it more complicated than it is....

Go back and re-read the regs. If you have done it, count your blessings that you were not caught.

I have had a C&R FFL for several years. I use mine for the purpose of
collecting not "engaging in the business". C&R holders are allowed to
dispose of guns from their personal collection but not deal in firearms
for business purposes. In my experience with using Priority mail flat
rate boxes local Postal clerks are only concerned with two issues;
any liquids inside? No. Any hazardous materials inside? No. Good
to go.

So, its kind of like "don't ask, don't tell"?

Hope that works out for you in the courtroom.


Plain & simple folks. According to current USPS regulations, you can not ship or receive a post 1899 handgun by using a C&R. Period.

 

[deadin]

So, its kind of like "don't ask, don't tell"

I would assume that is what some are promoting. The idea of "It's OK if you don't get caught" is not how I was raised.

 

[hotrod150]

.......(it can be less than 50 years old and still eligible).

Is there a quick and dirty way to elaborate on that statement? Is there a generalization, or is it a model-by-model list of eligible older-than-50 revolvers?

 

[robertwhite]

Is there a quick and dirty way to elaborate on that statement? Is there a generalization, or is it a model-by-model list of eligible older-than-50 revolvers?

If I am understanding your question. Yes, there is a list of under 50 yr old firearms on a lengthy list. You can also petition the BATFE to include a certain firearm that you feel should be on the list due to rarity, factory custom, etc. They will say yes or no.

Other than that, ANY handgun that was physically manufactured more than 50 yrs ago is automatically on the list, whether it is included in the book and/or updates or not.

Don't let any FFL or person that thinks they know, tell you otherwise. Many 01 FFL holders don't want to get involved with a C&R in a transaction, so they say, "its not on the list, so it isn't a C&R". Pure & utter nonsense.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

BATFE issues regulations for the interstate transfer of curio and relic firearms. They have said "relics" are firearms over 50 years old. Any firearm over 50 years old is eligible for a C&R licensee to acquire via interstate commerce. BATFE does not issue a list of relic firearms. (Firearms made in 1898 or prior are considered antiques and are not regulated Federally.)

A "curio" is any firearm the BATFE identifies as being unusual enough to draw collector interest even if it is not over 50 years old. Some examples are replicas of the Colt Single Action Army made by Italian firearms companies and some major manufacturers' "commemorative" models. To find out if a certain firearm is a curio, you must use the list.

 

[Dan M]

I would assume that is what some are promoting. The idea of "It's OK if you don't get caught" is not how I was raised.

If you ask me Risking losing your guns because you want to save 20 bucks on shipping is just plain Stupid.

this Topic has been beat to death over the years. Lee (Handejector) has stated this on multiple occasions. I trust his judgment.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/173273-shipping.html


Dan

 

[Nframecollector]

I didn't ask them to send it USPS!