C&R license - what if ?

[doublesharp]

Suppose you are browsing Gun Broker in the evening and notice an S serial # N frame closing soon that you are interested in. Not preplanned - just a potential impulse buy

Seller is an ffl and says only that gun must transfer to a valid ffl but makes no mention of C&R. Too late to ask a question and the auction closes in 30 min.

You're only interested in the gun if you can use c&r and avoid transfer hassle. You know the gun is eligible, your license is valid and you have bought similar guns several times over the years.

Do you bid w/out seller saying they will specifically take C&R or do you bid and submit C&R and if seller balks then you have the confrontation by saying it's my valid C&R or no sale?

The C&R makes it a totally legal transaction but some sellers are funny about accepting them. What do you think?

 

[lihpster]

Don't bid. If you don't have confirmation of the seller accepting C&R then you don't bid if that's the only way you'll do it. It puts you and the seller in a bad place. And means the seller potentially loses out on a sale to someone who is fine with a transfer. Wait for one to come up that you can confirm the use of your C&R. Or do the transfer, if that's the only way they'll do it.

 

[hittman77]

I would bid only if prepared to pay for shipping / transfer through an 01 FFL.

It may be worth the potential trouble to some attempting to prove a point about the 03 FFL validity but …. Not sure I’d die on that hill.

Sure, you can try and void your purchase if he won’t meet your terms and he can leave you a dead beat buyer ranking and then the negotiations begin.

Follow your heart. Good luck.

 

[2152hq]

You are a 'Valid FFL'

If the seller refuses to sell to the 03FFL,,then that HIS rule,
not the GCA68 regulation which makes it perfectly legal for the C&R elligible firearm to transfer from an 01FFL to an 03 FFL.

All State and Local Laws and Regs must be followed of course.

If he wants to refuse making the sale,,that is his option.
Don't argue with him.

Just move on.
It happens all the time.
03FFL vs 01 FFL

It shouldn't happen though

 

[Grayfox]

I agree, don't bid. Some FFLs will not take a C&R. That's their choice. Nothing you can do about it.
Otherwise bid only on items specifically marked as C&R or clear it with the seller in advance.
Worst case, you are tagged as a non-paying bidder, possibly banned.

 

[TXBryan]

I'm a C&R and if I desire to bid, and the firearm is eligible, I inquire if they don't say one way or another in the write-up. If I don't hear back or they balk I take a pass.

I've had GB sellers not bother to get back to me but I can't think of a time when one actually communicated they would not send an eligible item directly to me in response to the question.

There's plenty of item descriptions that include the "must go to an FFL - no C&R." Always makes me chuckle as my C&R is an FFL for eligible firearms. I choose not to do business with such characters.

 

[444 Magnum]

Some say "No C&R" so I usually don't bid. If it just says "FFL", then I bid because (as previously stated) a C&R is a form of FFL. So, yes, in your scenario I would go ahead and bid. I have yet to have anyone not accept my C&R when all they posted was "FFL required".

 

[snake803]

A long time ago, I was told that a C&R was NOT an FFL.. ????
Comments??
JIM............

 

[glowe]

I have a 03 FFL and have had to run C&R guns I bought through an 01 FFL. I bid, win, and ask about 03 FFL. If not accepted, I have the gun sent to my 01 FFL, I pick it up and own it. I am fortunate that my FFL will accept a C&R transfer using my license, so no form.

It sounds like you want the gun so is it worth it to hold to the flawed principle that if the seller will not send directly to your C&R, you will not buy. First of all, you will not get that gun you have been looking for because you have to pay a small amount of money to an FFL and complete a form? That is our decision to make.

 

[waffles]

Factor the possibility into your price. If it's still a good deal with an extra $20-$40 01 transfer, do it, if not, don't.

 

[Bald1]

I agree with previous post. Your C&R is a valid FFL for the item you are purchasing. If seller has a problem with that maybe it’s a teachable moment for him. If deal falls through it’s on him.

 

[Grayfox]

A long time ago, I was told that a C&R was NOT an FFL.. ????
Comments??
JIM............

You need to remember this is their business. Some 01 FFLs just feel that way. Wrong? yes. But just like a no shirt, no shoes policy, they have the right to refuse doing business to anyone.

 

[glowe]

. . . they have the right to refuse doing business to anyone.

Is that correct? FFL agents are an extension of and licensed by the BATFE. The BATF has specific rules of issuance and if the individual meets those rules, I wonder if they really have the right to refuse any qualified purchaser? Obviously, I do not recall ever reading about any legal action taken against FFLs who simply do not work with anyone for any reason, but the more I think about it, why are the dealers not held to the standards of the regulations? If a person passes the tests they should be issued the firearm.

I hear about gun show sellers who refuse to sell to someone simply because they did not like the demeanor or personality of the potential buyer, or any other reason. Do FFLs really have that much leeway with the laws a rules of conduct or are they supposed to carry out BATFE transactions that pass all legal requirements? I almost think that FFLs must (not maybe) follow the rules?? I do not recall ever reading a regulation that states an FFL can refuse service for any reason. If you pass the NICS check, properly complete the 4473, show proper identification, shouldn't the FFL be required to complete the transaction?

 

[Grayfox]

FFLs are required to follow certain rules and laws WHEN they make a sale. However, the decision to make or not make a sale is entirely up to them. They may be federally licensed, but its still a private business. Their shop, their rules.
BATFE actually encourages dealers not to make a sale if they find anything about it suspect. It can be as simple as something just doesn't feel right.

 

[glowe]

. . . BATFE actually encourages dealers not to make a sale if they find anything about it suspect. It can be as simple as something just doesn't feel right.

I wish I could find that in writing. Do you have the BATF regulation that supports what you said? I and bet you as well, would hate to be refused by an FFL who did not like you, for no legal reason!!! I still support the thought that personal preference is not a valid reason not to issue a firearm! Didn't we go though this with CCW opposing states for not adopting a "shall issue" CCWs, not leaving it up to the authorities to decide on on personal basis who gets and who does not get a permit. It was said that if there are no legal reasons to deny, a CCW should be issued.

 

[Puller]

You are a 'Valid FFL'

If the seller refuses to sell to the 03FFL,,then that HIS rule,
not the GCA68 regulation which makes it perfectly legal for the C&R elligible firearm to transfer from an 01FFL to an 03 FFL.

All State and Local Laws and Regs must be followed of course.

If he wants to refuse making the sale,,that is his option.
Don't argue with him.

Just move on.
It happens all the time.
03FFL vs 01 FFL

It shouldn't happen though

^^^ I agree ^^^

If the seller doesn't specifically say "NO C&R" then I'd bid on it if I wanted to. If the seller won't sell to me after the fact, we'll just part ways and he can re-list it.

Of course, if it's a qualified C&R and they don't accept C&R's, I won't do business with them anyway. I'll also interject that although I don't like it when an 01 FFL won't accept an 03 FFL and I won't do business with them accordingly, I respect their decision. That's how a free market should operate without government intervention.