C&R Licenses, need some schooling

bronco45

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Have an old pre Model 10 here in the classifieds for sale. Received a PM from a gentleman who thought due to the weapons age it would classify under the C&R provision of the law.

Wanted to purchase the weapon under the authority of the C&R directive?

I am ignorant, of the C&R stipulation. How does it apply in this situation?

Don't want to run afoul of any authority.

I do know C&R stands for Curio and Relic?
 
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If it is truly a "pre-Model 10" meaning it was made prior to 1958, it qualifies as a C&R. (Any firearm over 50 years old or on the BATFE C&R List is a C&R.)
Now the question is , what is it he wants you to do with it?
 
One thing to consider when shipping to a C&R is that there is no way to verify if the license is valid on the ATF's web site. When I ship to a C&R, I require that they include a copy of their current driver's license that has a matching address to the address on the copy of their C&R license.
 
One thing to consider when shipping to a C&R is that there is no way to verify if the license is valid on the ATF's web site. When I ship to a C&R, I require that they include a copy of their current driver's license that has a matching address to the address on the copy of their C&R license.

IMO Good idea!
Jim
 
A C&R license can be verified by calling (866) 662-2750.
The drawback is that you have to call during business hours Eastern Time. If the license is valid and you ship to the address on the license, you are clear.
However, there may be State laws involved that the shipper needs to
be aware of. Also the latest iteration of the USPS Mailing Manual has some subtle changes that appear to affect C&R handguns being mailed to or from C&R license holders.
 
A C&R license can be verified by calling (866) 662-2750.
The drawback is that you have to call during business hours Eastern Time. If the license is valid and you ship to the address on the license, you are clear.
However, there may be State laws involved that the shipper needs to
be aware of. Also the latest iteration of the USPS Mailing Manual has some subtle changes that appear to affect C&R handguns being mailed to or from C&R license holders.

Can you give the citation in the relevant postal manual to the "subtle changes" please? Dave_n
 
Haven't looked but I was under the impression that handgun shipments to/from a C&R licensee could NOT be made through USPS. Has that changed?
 
Haven't looked but I was under the impression that handgun shipments to/from a C&R licensee could NOT be made through USPS. Has that changed?

You are correct:

12.1.1 Definitions

The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

[Delete current items 12.1.1a and 12.1.1g in their entirety and replace with the following.]

a. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, which will, or is designed to, or may readily be convert­ed to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm.

b. Firearm frame or receiver is the part of a firearm that provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breech­block, and firing mechanism and that is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.

c. Handgun (including pistols and revolvers) means any firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand and subject to 12.1.1a, or a combination of parts from which a handgun can be assembled.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels that are less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or other­wise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shot­gun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow con­cealment on the person.

f. Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) manufacturer, deal­er, or importer of firearms means a manufacturer, dealer, or importer duly licensed by the Bureau of Al­cohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) under Chapter 44, Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.).

g. Curio and relic collector means an individual licensed by ATF to transfer or receive only those firearms de­fined as curios or relics by ATF under Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 478.11.

h. Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shot­gun/pistol that is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute and that cannot use fixed am­munition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm that is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by re­placing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combina­tion thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

i. Air gun means a gun that fires a projectile by means of compressed air or other gas (including paintball and pellet guns).

12.1.2 Handguns

[Revise 12.1.2 as follows:]

Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 after the filing of an affi­davit or statement required by 12.1.4 and 12.1.6, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 12.1.1b, and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 12.1.1g.

b. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 12.1.1b that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be cu­rios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.

c. Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearm under 12.1.1a that are capable of being concealed on a person are mailable; but must include adult signa­ture service under 503.8.0. Mailers must comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

d. Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers, or other parts or components reg­ulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C.

e. Mailers are also subject to applicable restrictions by governments of a state, territory, or district.

12.1.3 Authorized Persons

[Revise introductory sentence of 12.1.3 as follows:]

Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, a licensed importer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person’s official duties:

* * * * *

[Revise the title and text of 12.1.5 as follows:]

12.1.5 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufac­turers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade ship­ments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

[Revise the title and text of 12.1.6 as follows:]

12.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer, or importer need not file the affidavit under 12.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and compo­nents of handguns under 12.1.2d, are being mailed in cus­tomary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers, or importers of firearms.

[Revise the title and text of 12.1.7 as follows:]

12.1.7 Federal and Other Law Enforcement Agencies

Handguns may be mailed without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6 if the item is:

a. Addressed to a scientific laboratory or crime detec­tion bureau of any federal, state, or local law enforce­ment agency whose members are authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

b. Sent by an authorized agent of the federal govern­ment as an official shipment to any qualified address­ee in 12.1.3, or to a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms, or to a federal agency.

[Delete 12.2, Antique Firearms, in its entirety and renumber the current 12.3 through 12.22 as the new 12.2 through 12.21.]

That is not to say people don't do it, but it is against the law as seen in the above language from the USPS website.
 
You are right....
What confused me is the following from the Pub.52, Mailability:
432.2 Handguns

Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

  • Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

How can a gun be both a C&R AND an antique?? I've always thought of them a separate entities.
Didn't it used to be anybody could mail an antique? Now it looks like only dealers and C&R's can use the USPS for antique handguns....????

AND 432.24 above refers to form PS 1508 which is specifically for only dealers, manufacturers and importers. C&R's can't use this Form, so they can't even mail an antique per the earlier regulation.
 
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Back when I had my C&R, the UPS driver loathed to stop by my house...heavy boxes of "lead fishing lures" and rifles with their bolt handles sticking out of the box...must have thought I was a wacko survivalist nut. Well....
 
Note it said "between curio and relic collectors". Does not mean a 01 FFL cannot mail direct to a C&R (03 FFL). An 03 FFL cannot use the USPs to mail a firearm of any kind other than an Antique.
 
What does cut out dealer to C&R mailing is in the following:

432.23 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms,
licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary
trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

432.24 Certificate of Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer, or importer need not file the
affidavit under 432.22, but must file with the Postmaster a statement on
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, signed by the mailer that
he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms. The
mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and
components of handguns under 432.2d, are being mailed in customary trade
shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to
the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers,
dealers, or importers of firearms.
Registered Mail service is recommended.
 
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