C96 Broomhandle Reproduction Stock - Reply From the ATF

[Mcwsky09]

I see now why they say thr "collectors" value of the original parts makes it unlikely to be used in a crime. Because a rare and expensive firearm is unlikely to be fired at all by a collector because that could reduce its collector value. Whereas a reproduction does not have nearly the same value and would have no reason to limit its use.
Of course that kinda ignores that criminals don't care about the collector value of a firearm and if they stole an original or a repro would be just as likely to use it in the commission of a crime, provides it is not some relic they can't figure out how to operate.

 

[BigBill]

That means I can't own Colonel Mortimer's long barrel rifle stocked 45 long colt revolvers.

There's a 1911 with a rifle stock that has a 16" barrel. I was wondering if these were ever used in ww2?

I have my eye on a m96 mauser broomhandle.

 

[jmmitc06]

That means I can't own Colonel Mortimer's long barrel rifle stocked 45 long colt revolvers.

There's a 1911 with a rifle stock that has a 16" barrel. I was wondering if these were ever used in ww2?

I have my eye on a m96 mauser broomhandle.

I don't think it means you can't own them but just that the stock has to be permanently attached and you likely would have to get the tax stamp for an SBR.

 

[Rbobbitt]

Nothing yet

Just to update the list:
In August 2014, I sent a letter to the BATF requesting a finding (NFA or not) on my C-96 with reproduction holster/stock. In an email, they said they would respond to a letter within 60-90 days. It is now 120+ days and I have heard nothing.

 

[ibewbull]

Whoa! Am I the only one who spotted this scary part?



This makes it sound like owning an AR15 pistol and a separate unattached AR15 shoulder stock makes it subject to NFA SBR provisions.

Scary.

The AR stock is NOT QD.
UZI is another issue where the wood stock must be attached
with tools to be exempt from SBR. Not QD with a push of a button.
Know before you go there grey areas.

 

[Rbobbitt]

Still nothing yet.
Has anyone gotten an actual hard copy, letterhead, with signature finding?
To recap: as instructed by email from the BATF, I sent in 2014 a letter to the BATF requesting a finding on the legality of possessing a C-96 with reproduction holster/shoulder stock. I was promised a reply in 60 to 90 days. It's been a bit more than that now but still no letter. Sadly, the holster/stock I owned has long since gone into the trash (so when the black helicopter shows up, I'm clean. J).

 

[Rbobbitt]

As of today, still nothing. Almost two years. Longest 90 days I've ever experienced.

 

[BC38]

PM me with an email address and I'll send you a Word document with the letter.

It would be even better if jmmitc06 could post a screenshot of the entire email including the To: and From: info and date that people could download...

 

[Texas Star]

Because the Inglis-made Browning 9mm's were of WWII manufacture, well after the 1940 date given , wouldn't their stocks be illegal to have with the gun? Or, are they exempted despite the relative recent manufacture?

I suppose any FN-made or other stocks made after WWII are illegal?

 

[BigBill]

I want the repo c96 stock for my full auto select fire bb Broomhandle.

 

[DWalt]

Constructive possession as applicable to ARs. It is legal to have components which could be used to convert an AR originally made as a semi-auto to full automatic or burst fire. However you cannot legally possess any of those components if you have a semiautomatic AR, as they could be used to convert it to a NFA weapon.

 

[moosedog]

And thus, the world is a safer place.
It's a shame that in a world with our present problems, we have to worry if a wooden extension on an antique gun that no one uses is legal or not.

 

[CptCurl]

Constructive possession as applicable to ARs. It is legal to have components which could be used to convert an AR originally made as a semi-auto to full automatic or burst fire. However you cannot legally possess any of those components if you have a semiautomatic AR, as they could be used to convert it to a NFA weapon.

Wrong. The AR auto sear is classified as a "machinegun" itself and subject to the NFA. You cannot legally possess an AR auto sear without proper NFA registration and tax stamp, whether or not you have a semi-automatic AR.

https://www.atf.gov/file/11236/download

 

[Rbobbitt]

Broomhandle removed from NFA

I think.
On the ATF website:
If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?
Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.

[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]
*
Last Reviewed April 13, 2020

 

[2152hq]

The orig ATF Email is from 2014,,
7yrs old

I wouldn't trust the ruling then on Repro stocks for C96 or any of the others (LP08, Inglis HP, ect) being OK untill I see another up to date statement.

If the repro stocks for the pistols were OK is making the C96 and others a plain non-NFA weapon,,then those Repro Stocks are only good for that.

There are plenty of repro Luger Artillery stocks around.
If those are good to go with the possession of an Artilley Luger making it a non-NFA weapon,,,would it not make possession of the same repro artillery Luger stock and a standard Luger P08 pistol then a violation of the NFA?
See post 54 ,,ATF statement above.

You would have in your possession a Pistol and a Shoulder stock with is made to fit that pistol.
The Standard P08 with Shoulder stock has never been removed from NFA as a C&R as the Artillery Luger (LP08) has been.
(Repro)Stock + (Standard) Luger = NFA firearm.

Same with the repro Inglis shoulder stocks (and post war originals) and the pistols that will readily accept it.

I have a feeling that is why the current C&R list says 'original mfg' shoulder stock. That goes for the Luger Artillery and Inglis as well as for a couple of the shoulder stocked Colts and other Euro semiauto pistols from that era.

Just me not trusting things I guess..

 

[Rbobbitt]

I recently found this ATF post:
If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

“If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?

“Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.

“[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]”

I remain confused.
The ATF's new Curios or Relics List says the C96 with shoulder stock has been removed from the NFA but is still subject to the Gun Control Act. The Gun Control Act seems to define the C96 with shoulder stock attached as a short-barreled rifle – does it? There are all sorts of regulations governing SBRs – so if the C96 with shoulder stock is an SBR, what changed?
Cheers,
Rosser
---
https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download
Curios or Relics List — January 1972 through April 2018
See: "Section III — Firearms removed from the provisions of the National Firearms Act and classified as curios or relics, still subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968."
In Section III (on page 44): "Mauser, Model 1896, semiautomatic pistol, as produced by Mauser prior to 1940 accompanied by original German mfd. detachable holster/shoulder stocks, any cal."

18 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - FIREARMS | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions. "(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."

 

[boykinlp]

A Mauser C96 Broomhandle is on my "want" list! They are so cool, and historic as well.
Larry

 

[2152hq]

I recently found this ATF post:
.....
I remain confused.
.....

They all add up to the fact that a shoulder stocked Handgun IS an NFA weapon.

However... certain shoulder stocked handguns have been graciously removed from the NFA regulatory oversite because the BATF felt those particular guns are collector items.
Among those are the Artillery Luger and the C96 Mauser when accompanied with an ORIGINAL mfg shoulder stock.

Though these particular Shoulder Stocked handguns have been removed from their NFA status, they still however remain a 'C&R firearm' under the GCA68.
So any sale/transfer, ect of them still has to be done on a 4473/NICS check as any other Title I firearm.

State Laws may still prohibit possession.

Note that the BATF C&R list specifically says 'Original' shoulder stock,,where in the not too distant past, it used to say 'original or reproduction stock'.

 

[Rbobbitt]

New C96 shoulder stocks legal

In a recent exchange with the BATF Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division, it seems I am clear to own a C96 with newly manufactured shoulder stock holster. PDF copy of email exchange attached (I hope).

My email to the BATF: Is a Mauser C96 with newly manufactured original-design detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock a short barrel rifle covered by the National Firearms Act?
Or is it a curio or relic and not covered by the NFA?

BATF response: It has been long considered that although men6oned that the original stock is needed in conjunc6on specifically to the ORIGINAL Mauser 1896 pistols. EXACT and IDENTICAL replica stock assemblies have been allowed so long as the “C96” was originally made to allow its installa6on by the manufacture (Mauser).

 

[2152hq]

Good Letter. Thanks for posting.

I still don't trust it..

It was for more time that the Repros WERE allowed than not. That was in writing and in the C&R list.
Then a change came about and the C&R list changed the detachable stock to 'Original Mfg'r only'.
(That applied to the Mauser, Luger LP08, The Inglis HP, & several other shoulder stocked pistols that had received C&R status using 'Repro Stocks in the past)

It still says 'Original Mfg Shoulder stock' in the C&R Regs.

But the kindly ATF Tech Div says Oh it's OK, ('we') everyone generally accepts both repro and orig as long as the pistol was factory slotted for one.
Did the rest of the L/E community get the memo. How 'bout the Courts & Prosecutors.

Those AR-Wrist Brace Thingys were ATF OK for quite some time,,and in writing too.
I heard they're going for real cheap now for some reason.

Maybe Tech Div is tired of getting clumsy wooden pistol shoulder stocks in the mail with requests to analyze to determine if it's 'real' or not.
They can't tell anymore either,,,so don't bother us anymore with that stuff. It's a pain to mail them back too.

It's good news for those that like the stocks.
Most people never knew that the regs flipped flopped from Original to Repro and back to Original anyway.

The stocks are neat looking for sure and nice accessory.

Keep that letter.
What AFT Agent(s) signed the opinion BTW.