Caliber arrogance? - 30-30 called "wimpy"

[Vulcan Bob]

A lot of folks it seems have fallen prey to the gun and ammunition makers, bigger, faster and more powerful. That's all well and good if the game and ranges to said game warrants it. If you hunt whitetails in the deep woods a 30-30 and like cartridges are just the ticket. If you hunt larger game at extended range the 30-30 is not the best choice. That's why there are different calibers and cartridges for them and to dismiss and demean one just because its not your cup of tea is just plain old ignorance on several levels.

 

[Hillbilly77]

.....Besides, everybody knows that the .30-06 is King!

 

[venomballistics]

We all have some caliber arrogance.
Most can agree on the suck factor of the 25 auto.
Through the powder crunch, calibers like 30-30, 45-70, 32special and the rest of the old wheezin geezers have been the best show in town.
Even at the worst points, I never failed to find a no compromise powder to feed them.
After taking notes from loading 32 special for my father's 94, I added a 45-70.
It's hard to call a 45-70 wimpy, but even the 50 BMG is a woose with an empty chamber.

 

[BigBill]

When I'm alone in the wilds when I'm tracking paws that are bigger than my 13" sorrel insulated boots this is when a bigger caliber is better. You can never have too much gun during bear season.

Now during deer season I'm happy with my 6,5mm Swede mauser or my 7mm mauser. Even a 7,62x39 154gr bullet will do the job.

I don't call the 30-30 wimpy I just don't have one yet. Will my 35 Remington do?

The old Vermont farmer who hunted with us seen my 444 bullets on my belt. He said son we don't have elephants in Vermont. I said with all due respect sir as you can see I'm not built for running nor speed. He laughed and agreed. He was a crack shot with a 30-30. He was hunting bear in the light snow with a famous local bear Hunter. They tracked the bear till they caught up to it. The other guy shot first and his semi auto jammed. He was screaming run, run as the bear charged them. The old farmer said run he'll as he emptied his 30-30 into the charging bear when it finally dropped 10' in front of them. The old farmer said he's too old to hunt bears.

This old farmer could put two bullets thru the same hole at 144yards. That was the longest distance from his front porch on his 625 acre farm to the farthest fence post.

I've seen the 338wm pick up a black bear and spin it around in the air and drop it upside down like a dead cockaroach. It was like 25yards from us. It walked right up on us after something spooked it from behind. The year before we looked for a wounded bear someone shot. When butchering this bear I found a perfect 30 caliber bullet had stopped in the meat and healed over I found the wounded bear we looked for the year before someone shot it in the butt. I was taught if you don't have a good kill shot let it go. It's hunting ethics for a fast clean kill.

 

[shouldazagged]

I still miss my Marlin 336 in .30-30. My son successfully hunts Pennsylvania deer with a 336 in .35 Remington--he passed on a nice .257 Roberts to buy the .35.

Mostly, since I'm no longer physically able to hunt, I encounter the caliber arrogance (nice phrase) when people find out my EDC and home defense handguns are .38 Special revolvers. But like the grand old .30-30, .38 Special has been in production as long as it has because it works.

 

[kozmic]

Good analogy 'zagged!

I still miss my Marlin 336 in .30-30. My son successfully hunts Pennsylvania deer with a 336 in .35 Remington--he passed on a nice .257 Roberts to buy the .35.

Mostly, since I'm no longer physically able to hunt, I encounter the caliber arrogance (nice phrase) when people find out my EDC and home defense handguns are .38 Special revolvers. But like the grand old .30-30, .38 Special has been in production as long as it has because it works.

....liking the wimpy, underpowered lever-action 30-30 to the out classed, out dated 38s revolver!

Both work great in my world.

 

[bovw]

I was raised on 30-30 Marlins, my oldest now has mine, and I have Dad's. It is the only non milsurp rifle in the safe, and the others are .30 caliber as well. I have never hunted where a 30-30 wasn't up to the distance. All but one of my handguns shoot .38, though a couple will eat .357 as well. This group of old steel firearms will do everything I need them to do.

 

[brucev]

Re: OP. Hum... opinions are like noses, everyone has one. Some opinions are actually based on fact. Others are as irregular as a broken nose.

You share company with a innumerable host of men who understand and value the .22 LR for the superlative accuracy and utility it offers on the range and in the field. Once one masters the .22 LR the skills and discipline developed will directly transfer when one is shooting one of the center-fire calibers.

Once upon a time if you wanted power in a rifle, you had no choice but to use a larger bore and a heavier bullet. The looping trajectories that resulted made hits at long range difficult. When the .30-30 appeared, people were amazed that 200 yd. hits were so much easier. Theodore Roosevelt early on sang it's praises. Others less notable used it to kill virtually everything that walks, crawls or slithers in North America.

With the product improvements that have been made in gun powder, bullets, rifles and sights, the .30-30 of today is far beyond what our grandfathers may have used at the dawn of the 20th century. In the hands of everyday hunters and marksmen, the .30-30 today continues to kill just about any type of game animal men may choose to hunt. As with any other rifle caliber, there are situations where it will be ideal and there are situations where it will be less than ideal. For the overwhelming vast majority of hunting, game animals are shot at less than 150 yds., mostly around 100 yds. At such ranges, the .30-30 has more than enough horsepower for whatever one might be shooting. From eastern whitetail right on up to heavy game like moose, caribou and bear, the .30-30 is fully up to the task. Use a quality bullet suited to the task at hand. Know what you are doing with your rifle. Know the anatomy of the game animal you are hunting so that you know where to place the bullet to get into and through the vital organs. Use a moderately heavy bullet... 170 gr. and 190 gr. (as with the .30 Savage) and you will put game on the ground. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[quneur]

Has anyone checked Buffulo Bore's 30-30 offering? I would be hesitant to shoot one of those.

I've shot wimpy 30-30 rounds which recoiled not much more than a .22LR. It was factory ammo made/imported by PMC. It was a lot of fun to shoot but unfortunately, they stopped producing it. I've also shot pretty heavy 30-30 loads that left a sizable bruise on my shoulder after an afternoon of shooting.

The 30-30 has a wide range of loadings.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I once cartwheeled a wild boar on the run at a laser ranged 460 yards.

Did it with an early Mini 30.

Not supposed to be possible with that cartridge OR rifle.

I was using home loaded 125g rounds, but since I have switched to 150g NBT.

It ain't the arrow, it's the indian.

30-30 gets a bad rep for the blunt nosed and non efficient aerodynamics leading it to bleed off velocity. Within its range, it's devastating.

 

[feralmerril]

I seriously doubt if there is a real need for over three or four center fire cartridges made out of all the many there is. Of course some are made for people who wanted a short action, and then rimless counterparts for semi auto`s etc. The real biggest reason for more different cartridges has to be the same reason as auto makers change styles every year. If there was no model changes in many years the market would be saturated and nobody would want anything new because there wouldnt be any "new" change. Like that cartoon DR505 posted, I doubt the deer have gotten tougher in the last 150 years.

 

[UncleEd]

If I recall correctly, Finn Aarsgaard, who wrote for The American Rifleman, mentioned that as a young man in South Africa (or was it Rhodesia?) hunted elephants and other big game with the British .303 because that's all that was available.

It wasn't until much later that all those kills were impossible. It took the Americans and their belted magnums to show him the way.

 

[rwsmith]

Good point.....

Here in Kentucky, the regulations state that any centerfire rifle or handgun is legal for deer hunting. This means one could theoretically use anything from .25 ACP to .700 Nitro Express. The only real restrictions are a magazine capacity of no more than 10 rounds(again, for hunting deer, not a general restrictions), no full auto, and no FMJs or tracers.

I like this. What is plenty 'enough' to kill a deer? Those rednecks have to have their 'belted' magnums. Horse****.

 

[Mule Packer]

More deer have been killed by the 30-30 to this day even if we add up all the other calibers up together the 30-30 still wins.

Well...uh...actually, if we're to be real truthful about this, Bill, and we go back several years, the .22 has probably killed more deer than the .30-30. It's close though.

Seriously though, when some self-proclaimed "gun expert" starts bad-mouthing the .30-30, I just consider the source. Obviously, these kinds of folks get most of their "knowledge" from the latest gun rag and not from practical experience.

The .30-30 has probably ridden more miles in a saddle scabbard through pine, aspen, and rugged mountain country than any other caliber that I know of. It's the gun that most ranchers have tucked in a scabbard mounted to the side panel of their Jeep, or put under the front seat of their pickup.

As mentioned before, this "lowly" cartridge has killed deer, elk, bear, and a host of other game. It's a no-nonsense cartridge. It's a working man's gun. It might not have fancy engraving on the receiver or a Circassian walnut stock, but it seems to be the go-to rifle for a heckuva lot of folks who know the mountains and backwoods of this country.

I've killed most of my deer with a .30-30. They were mule deer bucks and this was in Utah. I've hunted black bear with a .30-30 and have never felt under-gunned.

So, whenever I hear some blowhard demeaning the .30-30, I just shake my head, walk away with a smile, and figure that he probably spends more time watching the Outdoor Channel than being out in the back country himself.

 

[mojave30cal]

All I know is: I sure as hell wouldn't want to be hit by a 30-30.

 

[Herknav]

I don't care what you shoot, just do it safely. I also find I gravitate away from gun store folks who offer uninvited opinions.

 

[RobertJ.]

That sounds like a group of guys who's minds are made up, and no amount of discussion or debate will change them. I clam up around that type, I make it a point to not argue with idiots.

I worked behind the gun counter in a big sporting goods store in Seattle for a couple years, and I can't count the times customers would try to impress me with their "knowledge". I'd let them babble all they wanted, or until they realized I wasn't going to challenge anything they said. Then I'd move on to the next customer.

 

[coltle6920]

I don't hunt and really don't know squat about firearms but I really enjoyed reading all of the posts here.

Used to watch a western with Walter Brennan as a grandfather traveling with his grandson looking for the grandson's father.All three were fast with the draw.Brennan's favorite line when his draw speed was challenged was something like "No brag..Just fact!"

I just got done watching a video on YouTube where a 12yr old boy takes out a bull elk at 1376 yds with a Gunwerks 7mm Rem Mag.His first shot went under the elk without even startling it.The second shot took it down.

What ever happened to hunting where you had to be quiet and downwind? I'm sure that all of you want to bring some meat home but still enjoy hunting the same way your fathers or grandfathers did it.

Nowadays it seems it's all about possibly using a drone for tracking,taking a kill and being home in time to watch some football.

Don't know if my post makes any sense to any of you but I enjoyed reading yours.If Walter Brennan were alive he would "like" each post and add..."No brag...Just fact!"

 

[gregintenn]

I killed my first deer over 30 years ago with a single shot 30-30.

I killed my last deer last November with it's ballistic twin, the 303 Savage.

In my life, I've killed around 100 deer with dozens of different rifle/cartridge combinations, and with the exception of a bow and arrow, I've yet to find one that doesn't kill a deer DEAD as long as I do my part.

 

[federali]

True Lies

If the gun shop owner tells all his .30-30 owners, just how wonderful that caliber is, he won't be selling you on newer calibers. Maybe this dealer and others like him need to undermine your confidence in your existing caliber or cartridge to set you up to purchase something that can actually kill a deer as it is widely known that deer have further evolved and are now be immune to hits from a .30-30, .25 Rem, .250, 300 and .303 Savage, etc.

By all means, continue to enjoy your existing cartridge and no doubt you'll continue to fill your freezer with game meat.