Caliber arrogance? - 30-30 called "wimpy"

[BigBill]

I wonder what percentage of us gun owners like to stay one up with the newer technology when it comes to these brand new wizzbang calibers over still using the older technology that's worked for the last 50 to 100+ years ago till now.

One big problem I noticed when hunting in the boonies don't look for your newer wizzbang calibers to be on the shelf for sale. I notice the old 30-30, 303 Britt and 30-06 is found in the general hardware stores. If your lucky the local General hardware store might even sell guns too. I once had a general store who also had groceries sell guns upstairs on the second floor.
I was in heaven with the one stop country shopping. I wonder why this way of bundling groceries, hardware and guns died off? I miss the old way of life.

 

[L Pete]

When I get to the age that I can't get within 30-30 range of a deer, I'll quite hunting. It is no longer "spot and stalk", but "spot and snipe". But,......they can't do it without their rangefinders and bullet compensating scopes with a spotter. I prefer open sights on my levers. I have some scoped, but mostly opened sighted. But, that's just me......

 

[Herknav]

Not hunting related, but in line with what Big Bill said: Having grown up in the boonies, I will note that the local (defined as ~25 miles away) Wal-Mart had only 10mm Special (.40 S&W) and 7.62 x 39mm when all of the other cartridges were sold out during recent shortages.

 

[Yorkie Man]

I have 6 30-30's all are 94's except an H&R handi rifle. This was the first centerfire rifle caliber I fired. It is an easy caliber to load for cast and jacketed. I also have 25-35, 7-30, 32 spl, 270, 348, 357,375 & 45-70 caliber lever action rifles. All are Winchesters but I have had a few Marlins over the and they are nice also. I have to say that I have killed more deer with my 4" 686, 3, than the other rifles. The farthest any of these deer went after being hit one time was 15' and one dropped on the spot, brain shot. You don't need cannon to kill deer in the Midwest. Anything that ruins meat and uses up it's renaming energy on the ground behind the deer seems like a waste to me. To each his own I enjoy the thrill of the hunt and like to get as close to my quarry as possible. I have watched guys at the range sight in their cannons and wince with pain after firing a few shots because the recoil was too much. That doesn't lend itself to very good offhand shooting when you brain tells you that when you pull the trigger it's going to hurt.

Lets face it if the manufacturers didn't keep trying to reinvent the wheel by bringing out new calibers they wouldn't be able to sell new guns and ammo and that's what their in business to do. My grandpa used to kill deer with a .22 because that was all he had during the depression and it worked.

 

[cass]

This always comes up in our deer camp discussions. Us older guys tend to stay with our 30-30 or 30-06 choices, while the younger set goes with the big stuff. I've spent a lot of time helping them find their lost deer. I have yet to have a deer or hog complain about being shot with a wimp.

 

[mc5aw]

Any of you run into what I call "caliber arrogance"?

From the 1911 crowd preaching the perfection of .45ACP ...

From the plastic fantastic fanboys crowning about the virtues of .40 ...

From the weekend warriors bragging about their tacticooled .308s ...

Everyone's got an opinion ... among other things.

Until I run up against an African bull elephant, I'm happy with 7.62x39 and 7.5x55 Swiss as backup. The handy 12 gauge is backup to the backup.

As to handguns, my CCW is a J-frame .38 Special or 696/624 in .44 Special. I'm comfortable with both, and feel no peer pressure due to caliber arrogance to change.

 

[rojodiablo]

Yep all the time. My favorite is the one guy who said that the 7.62 x39 is "not powerful enough". No other comment, just not powerful enough. For what? Sure it won't slay any dragons but it's still plenty powerful.

I love it when guys argue what better to shoot a deer with 3006, 308, 3030, and all the other 30 cal calibers. Around here the dear are about 100 lbs and most shots are under 100 yards

57,000 Marines& Army who came home in boxes would disagree with this sentiment.

30-30 is a very good round. Couple it with Hornady LeverRevolution ammo, and you have a spectacular brush to 200yd. rifle for everything from hogs to medium size bear. It has to be one of the more forgiving rounds to shoot, and though it's not as fast as say a 243, at 120yds a 30-30 hits and delivers drop power much better than a 243.
I will go so far as to say that if you are staying under 150yds, it is very much equal in hit power, and accuracy, to a 308. Beyond 150yds, the 308 just outperforms it. But inside that, I would be willing to take an elk with a 170gr. 30-30 at say 100-120 yds, and that is saying a lot about the 'little old rifle'.....

 

[LVSteve]

I think .30-30 is no longer sufficient because deer have gotten tougher over the years:

Naw, that's a wussy one. In the Nevada mountains the deer have 40 gigawatt shields AND ablative armour.

 

[rwsmith]

If its the LGS that's saying that.....

A gun shop preachin' that mularkey in these parts wouldn't survive a season.

I can see a bunch of guys touting their favorite caliber (uh, cartridge) but when the LGS tells you that it's the old, "NOBODY is doing THAT anymore. What YOU NEED is one of THESE!"

Just another sales tactic.

 

[ibewbull]

If I had to pick a fast handling hunting or defense gun the Marlin 30-30
Could be a great choice. I never saw the shelf bear of ammo for it.
It has plenty of and range.
I finally stepped up a notch to a 300 Savage for scope use.
I still have a Marlin and Winchester Classic octagon bbl.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Another one for another thread is the 45 Colt, which was all but dead and buried in 1968.
I guess it was harder to kill than the gun writers thought.

 

[rimfired]

Statistically, I believe the 30-30 has harvested more deer in PA than any other round. Believe it was posted in the Pa Game news.

 

[STCM(SW)]

OK, I'll be the one.
I shot a deer at only 45 yds with my Winchester 94 170 gr 30-30.
Peep sights. I know I hit it where I aimed.
Trouble was no blood trail at all...
Deer did not go that far and I did the circle thing going out trying to find it.
Heavy brush and trees.
Some other guys came accross the deer about 50-60 yds from where I shot it. No blood at all.....
Found the bullet had some how deflected up out the shoulder/back.
Had hit the heart....
Now, all the deer I have shot with my 25-06 from 40 to 150 yds went down or left a blood trail even at my age I can follow...
120 gr Barnes TSX bullets I load.
The '94 sits in the safe.......

 

[Ματθιας]

It's a gun shop! Unless they are known personally, who cares what they think!

 

[scooter123]

Family lore has it that my paternal Grandfathers brother used to keep the family in meat by hunting deer with a 22 rifle in West Virgina during the Depression. Cheap and Quite provided a twofold benefit when you are technically Poaching. As for how he did it, the family legend is that he would squirrel up on a deer and either put one into their eye or through the ear into the brain.

Personally, I don't consider the 30-30 as bing "puny". Especially when you compare it side by side to the 7.62 x 39. Because that "puny" 30-30 actually produces more muzzle energy than the AK round. It also produces a MORE muzzle energy than the 45 Long Colt or the 44 Magnum. No, it doesn't match the 30.06 or 308 but considering the age of the design and how well it's worked as a Hunting Caliber anyone who considers the 30-30 as being puny or obsolete really needs to spend some time shooting a 30-30 rifle.

 

[Donn]

A caliber war? On an internet gun forum? Imagine that.

 

[TheHobbyist]

My deer hunting rifle is a 30-30 Winchester. Dates back to 1898 I believe. Still puts food on the table.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Sounds more like a case of "caliber ignorance" than "caliber arrogance".

Ignorance can be fixed, but only in the willing.

 

[boatme99]

A simple case of Caliber Envy.
Sigmund would have a field day with that guy.

 

[David LaPell]

I've had similar conversations not that long ago with people, I was asked at work one day if I had a rifle to choose from would I get an AR-15 or an AK clone. I told them, after politely saying I have nothing against either that I would own a Winchester Model 94 or Marlin 336 in .30-30 first. A little chuckling, a little laughing after some tell me I have seen too many westerns. Then I explained at how many deer over the years the .30-30 has taken, and the fact that they were actually used by law enforcement agencies for a time, and there were some in US arsenals at one time. Then I tell them that the .30-30 was used by Tom Horn to do some of his dirty work, at ranges of 200 yards and better. It isn't the wild west nostalgia that sells the .30-30, its the fact that it works well in the gun it was designed for, a flat sided rifle and carbine. My grandfather killed deer and bear from 1929 to 1994, with the same gun. I've used .30-30 and I have seen it used, mostly one shot and a deer that is either dead in its tracks or not very far away from where it was shot.
The next time one of these guys say the .30-30 is old and outdated, point out how old the 9mm, .38 Special, .357 Magnum and .45 ACP is. The .357 Magnum is the youngest at seventy nine years old. Most quality calibers that have a good reputation for bagging game are older, and everytime they try and peddle a new round, you still see the older ones trump them one and all. With the .30-06, .30-30, .45-70 all over one hundred years old and still kicking and the .270, and .308 well past the 50 year mark, none of them are youngins. I like getting in these debates at gun shops some time, simply to see how flustered some can get when the facts are presented.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I can kill a deer with my 1076 smith, it is all about shot placement and when I was young I even hunted deer with 20 gauge slugs. No your typical deer gun.