Calif. compliant vs. others

[kado3]

New to the gun world.. Just want to know what is the difference between the M&P here in Calif vs. the others beside the 10rd mag?? again guys pls be gentle new to the gun world here sadly i have to be here in calif...hehe

Thank You,
KADO3

 

[Rastoff]

There are three differences to CA compliant guns:

1. They must be on the CA DOJ list.
2. They must have the magazine disconnect.
3. They must be sold with a 10 round magazine.

To get on the list, S&W must send in a gun for independent testing. It must pass a drop test. All the guns in the M&P line will pass that test due to the inherent design. S&W, or any gun company, must also pay for this test. I don't know for sure, but I was told it costs $3K for each test and they must submit 3 guns for testing which will be destroyed during the test.

The other thing necessary to get on the list is a chamber indicator. All the regular line of M&Ps have this feature. The Shield did not so, S&W made a special version for CA.

The point of all that is that all the M&P models could be on the list except for the mag disconnect and cost of all the testing.

If you want to remove the mag disconnect it's easy. You just need this one part: M&P 9/40/357 Sear Deactivation Lever Spring [2068] - $4.00 : Welcome to Speed Shooter Specialties
Of course you could make your own spring, but this is the one from the factory. Installing it would keep your gun in factory condition and essentially unmodified. And yes, it's completely legal to make this change once you take possession of the gun.

 

[Bud_Dub]

^^^

A back door ban in the name of 'safety' and another tax. God forbid a thug totes an 'unsafe' firearm.

 

[Ed911]

For sure. I wonder if California is releasing or even collecting data on the mag capacity for weapons used by California gangs. That would be interesting to see. I always get a kick out of watching the "gun for gift card" turn-ins on television. The only people taking advantage of it are law abiding citizens, who would never use their firearm against anyone. I've never seen any gangster / criminal in line to get rid of their weapons.

Well, just me...venting...FWIW...

 

[murphydog]

Good information from rastoff, except I recall reading the testing and associated fees are well north of $100K. Per gun and model.

 

[Saudade]

From FAQ - Calguns Foundation Wiki

"Why are some guns on the Roster, and similar guns from the same manufacturer NOT on the Roster?

Manufacturer's choice - each gun model costs the manufacturer 3 copies of the gun, $200, and ammunition to complete the testing; then it costs $200 annually for each model listed."

 

[CA Escapee]

From FAQ - Calguns Foundation Wiki

"Why are some guns on the Roster, and similar guns from the same manufacturer NOT on the Roster?

Manufacturer's choice - each gun model costs the manufacturer 3 copies of the gun, $200, and ammunition to complete the testing; then it costs $200 annually for each model listed."

I heard years ago that the cost to test the guns was about $2K per gun. I wonder if the $200 quoted in the CalGuns Wiki is just the state fee to list the guns. I know independent gunsmiths were doing the testing. I wonder what their fee was to do the tests?

I use to know one of those gunsmiths and can probably track him down and ask him what the scoop is.

Bill

 

[murphydog]

Glad to be wrong about the figure if so...I think a large amount of money goes to a state-approved testing facility which incurs much more expense than $200, not to mention gunmakers having to make CA-specific handguns that they may not be able to sell elsewhere.

 

[CA Escapee]

^^^

A back door ban in the name of 'safety' and another tax. God forbid a thug totes an 'unsafe' firearm.

I believe the CA legislators enacted "the list" to place a hurdle in the way of manufacturers just to make them not want to do business in CA. As evidence, every gun tested after the implementation of testing passed the test. So, the test didn't eliminate any of the evil, unsafe guns the legislators wanted to ban in the first place.

And, you can't tell me that an all black M&P is any different than an M&P with a dark earth frame. Both have to be tested in CA to be sold new, just because of the difference in the color of the polymer frame.

Bill

 

[CA Escapee]

Glad to be wrong about the figure if so...I think a large amount of money goes to a state-approved testing facility which incurs much more expense than $200, not to mention gunmakers having to make CA-specific handguns that they may not be able to sell elsewhere.

Murphydog,

I may be full of baloney, too. I'll see if I can track down the gunsmith that was a "certified" tester.

Bill

 

[CA Escapee]

There are three differences to CA compliant guns:

1. They must be on the CA DOJ list.
2. They must have the magazine disconnect.
3. They must be sold with a 10 round magazine.

One other small difference. The CA compliant guns don't have the "Caution-Capable Of Firing With Magazine Removed" warning lased into the right hand side of the slide.

The CA compliant M&P I bought in CA doesn't have the caution label, (doesn't need it with a mag disconnect,) but every one I've purchased outside of CA does have the label.

Bill

 

[robkarrob]

CA also requires a loaded chamber indicator. That is shown in the owners manual for all guns, but is only installed on the CA compliant guns. On the M&P models, it is a flip up lever, on the top of the slide. It raises up about 1/16 inch when a casing is in the chamber and the slide is in battery.

Bob

 

[CA Escapee]

Here's a link to an "American Handgunner" article from a couple of years ago on one man's endeavor to become certified with the state of California to test handguns. He goes into the details of the testing.

Exclusive: Not UnSafe | American Handgunner

Bill

 

[Saudade]

Well, CA Compliant simply means the handgun is listed on the CA roster of Safe handguns.

The actual "safety" devices the specific model has depends on when it was added to the roster and if the manufacturer has maintained it. Once on the list, they are grandfathered. If they go off list, they then need to comply with current standards to get back on.

I bought a Sig SP2022 in Dec 2012 that was made in Apr 2012. It does not have an LCI, or mag disconnect. Neither does my 2013 Rock Island 1911. My Beretta M9 (also 2013) uses the external extractor as the LCI but has no mag disconnect.

Sig has allowed to let quite a few models go off list.

New gun models not only have to have the above listed "safeties" but microstamping as well. A bill is floating around to require "owner authorized" as well.

IMO, it *is* meant to be a deterrent. While the cost of testing seems cheap, the cost of design, development, QA and production for a "one state gun", can be restrictive.

 

[UncaGrunny]

CA also requires a loaded chamber indicator. That is shown in the owners manual for all guns, but is only installed on the CA compliant guns. On the M&P models, it is a flip up lever, on the top of the slide. It raises up about 1/16 inch when a casing is in the chamber and the slide is in battery.

Bob

Minor correction; my HAL-serial Cal-compliant M&P9 FS has no such lever - - the chamber indicator is a small relief on the slide face & the chamber rear that allows you to visibly 'see' the lip of a chambered round.

Maybe they've changed over time?

 

[Saudade]

My HAV has the "hole" in the rear of the hood to see the case inside the chamber.

Others have the "flag" that extends above the slide when loaded like the CA Compliant Shields.

There are other methods to indicate a loaded chamber.

 

[Onslow]

Is there also a prohibition against threaded barrels?

 

[Saudade]

Is there also a prohibition against threaded barrels?

In CA? A threaded barrel on a semi auto, with detachable magazine would make it an assault weapon. Not prohibited but you need special permits to own one.

 

[Rastoff]

CA also requires a loaded chamber indicator. That is shown in the owners manual for all guns, but is only installed on the CA compliant guns. On the M&P models, it is a flip up lever, on the top of the slide. It raises up about 1/16 inch when a casing is in the chamber and the slide is in battery.

Bob

No, the gun needs a loaded chamber indicator to be on the approved list. I believe I covered this in my original post. Only the Shield has this "flip up lever" you're talking about. It's probably because the shield doesn't have the normal chamber indicator that is cut into every other barrel.

Good information from rastoff, except I recall reading the testing and associated fees are well north of $100K. Per gun and model.

I too am glad to be wrong about the fees. I had heard $3K/gun, but $200 is much better though it sounds low. Even so, if it were $100K/gun, no one would sell here, ever. The list of S&W guns alone would be in the millions and they don't make that much.


All these laws are written for two reasons: First to ban guns. They figure if they make it difficult enough, eventually manufacturers will stop selling them here. This has been partially successful. Second, if they can't ban them, they may as well get some more money. This is very successful and works in every state.

 

[UncaGrunny]

...if it were $100K/gun, no one would sell here, ever...

Let's not be putting any bright ideas in their pointy little heads, hmmmm...?

nudgenudgesaynamore