Can this be original finish?

[handejector]

45ACP Model of 1917 Extractor Rod Variants-
The first of this model had a two piece extractor rod. S&W changed it fairly-on to a one piece part. They also moved the front latch point about 3/16 inches forward so that a two piece rod doesn't fit. I know this because I just tried to replace a bent rod in a serial # 35xxx gun recently. Numerich did not have a one piece rod available, so I figured a two piece one would work just as well. It didn't work because the front latch milled area on the barrel had been moved forward.

I doubt S&W reverted to the two piece rod after WWI.

I am not sure what you are dealing with on your particular 1917, but I can tell you that the Military 1917s never had a two piece rod. I own #75, and it is like all the others- a one piece rod, and the front locking lug is located just like all the others.
My guess is Numrich sent you the wrong rod.

 

[Targets Guy]

Dagnaggit! Now I'll have to get my 1924 nickle out and look at the knob.

 

[Absalom]

.....What bothers me about the OPs gun is that the color looks off. No blue color and mostly black brings up some questions, but metal is perfect and stampings are clear.

Coming a bit late to this party, I'll skip over the knob issue and come back to the OP's finish question.

Gary's comment reflects exactly my reaction to the OP's picture. The finish is off. To me it looks more like an early post-war matte low-polish finish, but not what I'm used to seeing on 1920s M&Ps, especially the series of photos attached to the first post. However, I can find no fault with the stampings, and I can't exclude that the issue is one of photography rather than finish.

 

[BC38]

HEY! This thread made it into the Weekly Update. First time a thread I started ever did that AFAIK!
Kinda' cool that so many shared so much good info it got included! Thanks guys!

 

[handejector]

The color is correct on the gun. You guys are not allowing for the oil/grease/grime that can obviously be seen on the gun which plays with light reflection, which messes with the perceived color. Combine that with unknown lighting type and unknown camera settings.
One just has to learn what the right color looks like when presented in differing conditions.
Sometimes, I wonder if some of the judgements are being made on a phone sized screen. I use a 24" monitor. That helps.
So-
The knob on this gun has a white bevel.
The color looks right to me.
I see NO sign of buffing.
One more thing-
Know the finishes. 1920s guns are very, very slightly less high polish than Pre WW I guns and 1930s guns. They were very high polish before WW I, but they came back after the War slightly less polished. They again became very high polish in the 30s, but probably one grit less on the polish in the 20s, or most of the 20s. I've never tried to pin down the exact year it went back to high polish, but it seems to be roughly about the time the decade changed.
Don't believe it? Lay a HIGH condition 1923 M&P beside a HIGH condition 1933 M&P. Put a 10x loupe on the two surfaces.

 

[ischia]

original finish

I'd say yes. Value? $400 easy But add FFL transfer fee $25-$75 then Wa. state sales tax 10% and possibly shipping costs,now we are getting close to $550-$600 Not a great deal.
I'm applying for a C&R FFL to save $ on all those creeping fees. This one would apply.

Ischia

 

[BC38]

I'd say yes. Value? $400 easy But add FFL transfer fee $25-$75 then Wa. state sales tax 10% and possibly shipping costs,now we are getting close to $550-$600 Not a great deal.
I'm applying for a C&R FFL to save $ on all those creeping fees. This one would apply.

Ischia

Well, yeah, IF I were buying it from an auction house or internet business.
But since it is for sale from a private party there would be no sales tax in my state - thankfully (since sales tax is almost 9%), and I have two local FFLs who do transfers for $20.
I'll probably pay less than $400 for it too. We'll see...

 

[BC38]

Well, I may have made a mistake, but I couldn't resist.
I bought it - for $200 + $20 transfer fee.
After a thorough inspection I'm convinced it is all original except the stocks, which actually turned out to be black washer N-frames in not perfect, but very good condition.
The ejector rod tip is in the white as it should be, right in line with all the other indications of an original finish. There are a few little freckles and handling marks, plus the scratch on the sideplate and a small spot of muzzle wear.
The one problem and the reason I got it so cheap, is that it has pushoff and an extremely light SA trigger. As in dangerously light.
I'm thinking someone may have tried to do a trigger job and just went too far with it. The seller said he had the sideplate off and with it off the pushoff/light trigger issue goes away, which seems really strange to me.
So, once I get it out of BGC jail, the first thing I'll be doing is taking the sideplate off to confirm what he's saying and probably taking it to the local gunsmith to have the sear re-stoned.

 

[Troystat]

Looks like you got a nice revolver, especially for the price.

 

[BC38]

Anybody got any theories why one of this vintage would have pushoff and a really light SA trigger with the sideplate on but not with the sideplate off?

 

[k22fan]

This is just the first thought through a tired little amateur pea-brain. The trigger's engagement with the hammer's SA notch is what holds the cocked hammer back. If the hammer stud is a little loose then without one end supported by the side plate as you push the hammer forward to deliberately cause push off you are relocating the hammer further forward making the SA notch over lap the trigger more. Wide awake gunsmiths or hobbyists are welcome to correct me.

By the way, the sear is alternatively called the double action fly. The hammer's SA notch is not called the sear. To correct push off you stone the trigger, not the sear or SA notch. Instructions are in 500Magnum Nut's FAQ sticky in the gunsmithing sub-forum. Unfortunately all his pictures have been lost and in this case the picture told the story.

 

[Waveski]

Don't know.
What I do know is - if you cycle the action under normal spring tension and test push-off with the side plate off you are risking bending the posts that are under load and are usually supported by the side plate.

Taking a flyer at $200 does not sound bad.

 

[BC38]

This is just the first thought through a tired little amateur pea-brain. The trigger's engagement with the hammer's SA notch is what holds the cocked hammer back. If the hammer stud is a little loose then without one end supported by the side plate as you push the hammer forward to deliberately cause push off you are relocating the hammer further forward making the SA notch over lap the trigger more. Wide awake gunsmiths or hobbyists are welcome to correct me.

By the way, the sear is alternatively called the double action fly. The hammer's SA notch is not called the sear. To correct push off you stone the trigger, not the sear or SA notch. Instructions are in 500Magnum Nut's FAQ sticky in the gunsmithing sub-forum. Unfortunately all his pictures have been lost and in this case the picture told the story.

Good info, and thanks for the correction on my terminology.
That's why I'll probably take it to a pro - I'm not that well versed in the inner workings of revolvers. I understand the principles and am generally familiar with the parts, just not very experienced at actually doing the work.

Don't know.
What I do know is - if you cycle the action under normal spring tension and test push-off with the side plate off you are risking bending the posts that are under load and are usually supported by the side plate.

Taking a flyer at $200 does not sound bad.

Thanks for the warning, I'll be very careful when checking it out.

I appreciate the input guys. Anyone else with any further info, theories, or input please feel free to post up.

 

[BC38]

Just a quick update on this one. Got the pushoff problem taken care of with a little work on the hammer.

I took it to the range this past Saturday and was getting a few light strikes.

So I'm wondering if it is a mainspring issue or a strain screw issue.
Can anyone tell me the correct length for the strain screw for one of this vintage? If not I can post the question in the gunsmithing section....

 

[glowe]

Sounds like Bubba got hold of it sometime in the past! Gun does not show enough wear to suffer from push-off of hair trigger in SA. Did you not get a chance to cycle the gun before buying? Better question is did the seller not mention the problem???

You might have to add to the cost of ownership by visiting a good gunsmith. Hopefully the gun can be "fixed" or else you may need a different trigger.

 

[BC38]

Sounds like Bubba got hold of it sometime in the past! Gun does not show enough wear to suffer from push-off of hair trigger in SA. Did you not get a chance to cycle the gun before buying? Better question is did the seller not mention the problem???

You might have to add to the cost of ownership by visiting a good gunsmith. Hopefully the gun can be "fixed" or else you may need a different trigger.

Yup, see post #48. I knew it had pushoff - that's why I got one with such a nice original finish (only 2 scratches on the sideplate and otherwise almost zero wear) for only $200.

The pushoff is corrected now, just seeing a few light strikes - possibly due to either a thinned main spring or a shortened strain screw. That is why I was asking about the correct length of strain screw for this vintage - so I can measure mine and thereby determine if that's the cause of the light strikes issue.
Since the stocks that were on it were N-frame black washer magnas - I was able to sell those for $60.

So with the replacement hammer that I paid $20 for I'm into this one for a whopping $180 ($200 + $20 transfer + $20 hammer - $60 from selling the stocks). So I still have some "room" for making repairs before I even get close to exceeding its value.

 

[delcrossv]

Show us the front of the mushroom shaped extractor rod knob. It is said by many hard-core collectors and experts that ALL were finished without bluing in the white and yours looks like it could be all blue??

Blued and then subsequently having the bluing removed in final fitting.