Canadian Military Issue S&W Revolver?

[Tom in Pittsburgh]

The "C Broad Arrow" marking and apparent factory-installed lanyard loop on this vintage (1902/1903) Smith & Wesson M&P 2nd Model factory target revolver seems to indicate Canadian military issue/usage.

Anybody out there have any ideas on how/where/why?

Thanks in advance.

Tom

Vintage Gunlore Homepage

 

[DCWilson]

Model of 1902 Target. Rare bird. Congratulations!

Not even 1902/First change. Just Model of 1902. That has to date to 1902 or 1903. (Possibly early 1904 if it sat on the shelf a bit.)

Can you share the serial number?

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, you pretty much said all that in your own post. I just got lost in the photos and reacted to them without reading what you wrote.

 

[cgt4570]

Beautiful gun. Are the grips numbered? That style of grips wasn't available until circa 1910 timeframe.

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the Forum!! Boy,you new guys are sure coming up with some "Killer" First Posts. A Great Find to say the least!! First thing is with this marking it "Definitely" needs a Research Letter from Roy Jinks the "Factory Historian" by all means!! I've never heard of any Canadian Military Marked Revolvers of this period,let alone a Target Model.

I'm sure there will be some others come along shortly with some other info for you. A Serial Number Range would be nice though.

Masterpiece

 

[victorylarry]

That M&P target has some interesting features. Being a very early model, in target configuration, lanyard and canadian military acceptance mark make this one well worth a letter. Thanks for sharing.

 

[opoefc]

I doubt that's a factory installed lanyard swivel. I appears to be drilled through the serial number, which S&W would never do. You definately need to letter the gun, as a Target Model is still a rare bird. My guess is that it was for a military shooting team, oe acquired for such, at some time in it's life. I'm not sure, w/o some research, that the C with the arrow stamp was in use in Canada in early 1900s. Ed.

 

[Masterpiece]

I thought that also Ed. I was hoping he would post a couple photos of that area to get a better look at it. Do you think you could do that Tom? It surely would help. Are there any other markings that don't look to be Factory on it anywhere?

 

[k22fan]

[...] Are there any other markings that don't look to be Factory on it anywhere?

You mean something like a white Canadian military arrow in a photo in which all the other spots where bluing has worn off appear silver?

 

[Tom in Pittsburgh]

Thanks for all of the input!

Serial number range is 2187X. As I recall, the grips are numbered -- but not to this revolver. Will check tonight and post. Who knows where this piece has been in the last 110-odd years?

I will certainly look into a factory letter.

Thanks again.

Tom

 

[Masterpiece]

No,I meant any markings other than the obvious Canadian Military Acceptance Stamp which has been highlighted!!

You mean something like a white Canadian military arrow in a photo in which all the other spots where bluing has worn off appear silver?

 

[linde]

never say never re: S&W

I doubt that's a factory installed lanyard swivel. I appears to be drilled through the serial number, which S&W would never do. You definately need to letter the gun, as a Target Model is still a rare bird. My guess is that it was for a military shooting team, oe acquired for such, at some time in it's life. I'm not sure, w/o some research, that the C with the arrow stamp was in use in Canada in early 1900s. Ed.

It is with great trepidation that I offer evidence contrary to what our sage Ed has posted but I have an M&P target from 1931 with a lanyard swivel through the serial number and a factory letter that confirms it left the factory with the swivel. The serial number was placed on the left side of the grip frame to satisfy S&W's obligation to have it on the frame. I posted this example on post #19 of this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/155875-about-wolf-klar-44-a-2.html

Ed, I always learn from your vast knowledge and experience . . . and I'm sure this will never happen again,

Russ

 

[opoefc]

Russ, Your info. is appreciated, as I clearly did not mention that when an order was received by the factory for a gun with a lanyard swivel, and a gun was selected from the vault of completed guns to fill the order, the lanyard swivel was installed through the already stamped serial number, and the number was restamped on the side of the grip frame. The poster of this Canadian gun has not yet informed us if this is the case with his gun. Thanks, Ed.

 

[John H]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum but not new to british commonwealth military stamped markings.

The arrow within 'C' proof stamp was used up until and during WW2, my guess is that during WW1 or WW2 there was a need for handguns in the Canadian forces and many civilian handguns were procured/donated, then tested (proofed) before being issued.

cheers,

-John H

 

[red9]

John H mentioned "donated guns." I have heard that, when Commonwealth forces needed armament at the outbreak of the War, various police crime laboratories went through their reference collections and contributed everything in usable calibers. The old timer who told me this years ago said that the Chicago Police Laboratory even provided a 45 caliber Savage 1907, so this could be a possible source of oddballs with Commonwealth markings. One possibility, but I would still get a letter.

Bob #946

 

[zywina]

Guys from my Grandfathers stories during WW2 it seems that Canada was woefully undersupplied with about everything, there was a donation program, from binoculars to rifles/shotguns that were used during the war, and there was a ticket attached to every donation with the persons info. And after the war, unbelievably some of these donation were returned! But if it was to be put into service. all military proof marking were still applied! I have a friend whos family donated some WWI german binoculars that were miraculasly returned, with Canadian military markings!The pictured Canadian proof mark was used from 1900 to 1955, there are 5 differrent similair Candian proof stamps thar are very similiar. If you gun has any regiment marks ,please post and I will look them up for you! Great find , wish it were mine! Dale Z in Canada!

 

[Tom in Pittsburgh]

Some additional pics (and questions)

OK, Folks,

Here are some additional images. As mentioned in an earlier post, the grips are not numbered to this revolver.

Also, the lack of a re-stamped serial number on the frame leads me to believe that the lanyard may be after-market, too? Now that I have them off for photographing, one seems darker than the other -- so maybe they're not even a matched pair?

The left grip is beginning to develop a crack through the escutcheon diamond -- so I really don't want to shoot the revolver with these grips. What kind of rubberized (or otherwise good grip) grips are available for this old veteran? (I'm only planning to use handloaded cast bullet target loads for paper punching -- nothing extreme!)

I am also going to send for a factory letter, and will eventually post the results.

The only other non-original markings are some faint import markings on the bottom of the barrel (Joe Salter's company). The silver area in the photo of the "C Arrow" marking is only a light reflection -- not worn blueing.

That's all for now -- thanks to everyone who has posted (so far) in this thread. Great community!

Tom