Cannon gun safe - is this normal?

[Double-O-Dave]

Despite having a graduate degree and an IQ that is in the three digit range, I've never been accused of being overly intelligent. My purchase of this, my first gun safe, is a case in point. My thinking prior to purchase could be thought of as: "it's a steel box with a lock on it". Whoa! Big mistake! Yes, it is a METAL box with a lock on it. But I should have done my research and taken a bit more time prior to purchase. Part of my drive was that the wife finally agreed to let me purchase a gun safe, and they were on sale at the local Costco. But I take full credit for this decision.

If anyone out there wants to learn something - take heed and do your research. Yes, a better gun safe will cost more, but pay once, cry once. At a minimum, my current safe is better than hiding your firearms in a closet or under the bed. But coulda, shoulda, woulda is hard at work now.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Tom S.]

Despite having a graduate degree and an IQ that is in the three digit range, I've never been accused of being overly intelligent. My purchase of this, my first gun safe, is a case in point. My thinking prior to purchase could be thought of as: "it's a steel box with a lock on it". Whoa! Big mistake! Yes, it is a METAL box with a lock on it. But I should have done my research and taken a bit more time prior to purchase. Part of my drive was that the wife finally agreed to let me purchase a gun safe, and they were on sale at the local Costco. But I take full credit for this decision.

If anyone out there wants to learn something - take heed and do your research. Yes, a better gun safe will cost more, but pay once, cry once. At a minimum, my current safe is better than hiding your firearms in a closet or under the bed. But coulda, shoulda, woulda is hard at work now.

Regards,

Dave

Hey, it's called live and learn. You've learned and won't make the same mistake, even with non-related things. That's the important part and where the IQ comes into play. We all screw up. Show me someone who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who died at an extremely young age.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Another update - word back from the president of Cannon Gun Safes

Okay, I wrote to the president of Cannon Gun Safes, Steve Hoffa, this morning. His response is as follows:

Hello,

I will add to Ms. Gomez’s comments.

I can assure you the security and structural integrity of the safe is excellent.

Although light from the inside can “leak” out and be visible one cannot see inside of the safe or of its contents.

The gap that you reference of is well within our standard of tolerances. Frequently we judge this gap of our competitors and it can be as much 4 quarters or more (1/2” +).

As for being able to “Pry” open the safe the critical item here is the overall design of the door, door frame and general construction of the frame and safe. The various “bends” that we place in the design is what gives it superior strength from prying. We have countless customer reports about their safe where attempted break ins of numerous methods to include prying have failed.

Our safes become “air tight” when the fire gasket is expanded due to fire or excessive heat. As Ms. Gomez explained the seal will become 12x larger filling all the gaps between the door and door frame so that smoke or water (from the fire department) are not allowed in.

I am confident that the security of our product is not the same as a “School Locker”.

I hope my explanation answers your questions and concerns sufficiently as we feel your safe is within our quality control standards.

Feel free to contact me if you have further questions.

Sincerely,

Steve Hoffa | President
P: 702.910.2400 | C:702.901.1865

Not happy with his response, I replied thusly:

Good morning Mr. Hoffa:

Thank you for your very prompt response. Despite your assurances, I can quite easily look through this gap in the upper right hand corner of the safe door and see items within the safe such as handguns, jewelry boxes, etc. I cannot see the entire contents of the safe, but I can very easily identify contents in the right hand side of the safe without any difficulty at all. At least the ventilation slots on a school locker are angled downward so you cannot see inside of it.

Regards,

Later this morning, I received an email from Cannon Gun Safes asking me to rate the support I received. There were two options:

* Good, I'm satisfied
* Bad, I'm unsatisfied

I rated the support as "Bad, I'm unsatisfied". Additionally, I left the following comment:

I think the support I received, even from your president, Steve Hoffa, is inadequate and unacceptable. I plan on sharing this information with members of the different gun forums I am a member of, as well as my fellow shooters and collectors. Additionally, I will begin planning on a replacement gun safe which won't be a Cannon brand.

Please draw your own conclusions.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Muss Muggins]

How come when I go to the Cannon website, there's a different fella' listed as President and CEO . . . ?

Cannon Safe - About

 

[Rastoff]

Don't beat yourself up Dave. Just the fact that you have a metal locking box to store some stuff in, puts you head and shoulders above most gun owners when it comes to protection. Most gun owners have their guns under the bed or in a closet with no lock whatsoever.

Are there better safes? Sure, but break out your check book and unloose the purse strings 'cause it's gonna hurt.

Now, to give you a little piece of mind, look at this:

This is a bottom-of-the-line, made-in-China Liberty gun residential security container (RSC) (safes are found in banks and very rarely homes). I was at the store when they were taking this off the truck. This happened on Thanksgiving 2011. The thieves had about 3 hours to work on this; they never got in and left behind a bunch of broken tools.

The point is, even the cheap gun RSCs are better than a closet and will stop most bad guys.

 

[Onomea]

Other than in the movies, when was the last time you read about crooks breaking into a bank vault?

That would be last May: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/n...ves-dozens-of-deposit-boxes-on-roof.html?_r=0

I think the main point of a safe is to keep guns safely away from children and others who should not have access. While I agree that a determined crook with the right tools and enough time can break into any home safe, I think opportunistic smash and grab types are more typical of likely house robbers, in most of our cases, and that a good home safe would likely be more than they could handle.

 

[FredBart]

Watch movies like "Thief" and "The Score" to see how real pros get into a safe. A home RSC is a deterrent, not a safe for diamonds. Consider the simple robbers that will enter you home. Make sure whatever RSC or safe you have is bolted to joists or concrete. A real pro doesn't want firearms unless you have a very special collection.

 

[Fishslayer]

If anyone out there wants to learn something - take heed and do your research. Yes, a better gun safe will cost more, but pay once, cry once. At a minimum, my current safe is better than hiding your firearms in a closet or under the bed. But coulda, shoulda, woulda is hard at work now.

Regards,

Dave

Meh... I did plenty of research. One of the things it turned up is that most commercial gun safes are actually "home security containers" or something like that. Given time most will not deter a professional that really wants in.

 

[zonker5]

I think the support I received, even from your president, Steve Hoffa, is inadequate and unacceptable.

Just what were you expecting Cannon to do?

 

[Rastoff]

Make sure whatever RSC or safe you have is bolted to joists or concrete.

Yes, FredBart is correct and I forgot to mention it. The RSC I pictured above was properly installed.

What that means is it was bolted to the concrete floor. This helps reduce the possibility of being pried open. It's better if it is mounted with the left side close to a wall. This makes it so they can't move a pry bar when trying to pry on the left side of the door.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Just what were you expecting Cannon to do?

Good question. Frankly, I was hoping they would say something along the lines of: "Oh, your safe door needs to be adjusted. Here's how you do it...", or: "your seals need to be replaced, we're shipping a new set to you along with the instructions on how to install it:, or: "We're sending you the name and phone number of a locksmith who will inspect your safe and make the needed repairs".

I did not expect the factory to tell me that a gap like that was normal. I guess it was a mistake for me to install the LED lamp. Before the lamp, I never realized there was a gap in the safe door - in other words, fat/dumb/happy.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Mickey D]

What do you guys think after looking at the photos? Is this normal or a defect?

Regards,

Dave

That's normal. It provides a place to let the smoke out. If it bothers you, turn out the light.

 

[Murphy's Law]

I have the Cannon "Scout" and I am very pleased with it. Holds numerous rifles and hand guns. I also installed a LED push on/off adjacent to three of the shelves but unlike your situation, everything is sealed tight (checked after your OP. Sorry they don't want to make things right for you. Got mine through Costco at a great price including delivery. Six digit electronic combo utilizing 9V battery. Change battery out once each year. Everything works as it should.

 

[dougb1946]

Or: The manufacturers people are telling the truth, the gap is within specs. and a gasket will expand when heated. The problem is obviously the lamp in the safe. Remove the lamp.

 

[m1gunner]

Other than in the movies, when was the last time you read about crooks breaking into a bank vault?

Wasn't there a vault robbery this summer in the EU? Crooks went in on a Fri night and had all weekend to do their thing.

There was another last year where the thieves used a construction concrete saw and bored their way into the vault, again had lots of time.

Just yesterday I read about a vault broken into in Canada, thieves used a suppressed Lahti 20mm over a weekend, they got in.

"Safes" are recovered all the time, discarded in the boonies after they are breached by crooks. This included gun safes that are dragged off so the thief can take the time to cut it open.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

UPDATE: problem with a Cannon Safe (RSC)

Good afternoon:

Here's an update on my situation with my Cannon RSC:

It took a while, but Cannon finally stood behind their product. I had a number of phone conversations with their customer service manager and asked him if there was any way the door could be adjusted, or the gap otherwise reduced. The answer was no. He explained that the gap was supposed to be there, and was part of the design as the RSC had internal, rather than external hinges, and the gap was needed for the door to open and close. I then asked if the gap in the door was within specs - and what were the specs? He said that no more than 2 quarters should fit in the gap, and if they did, I should let him know. Well, two quarters easily fit in the gap. I took photos and sent them to the manager, and he called me and asked me what I wanted to do about it. I asked him what the company did in same or similar circumstances, and he said I could have a replacement safe.

When I asked how and when this would occur as I had to figure out how to get the current RSC unbolted from the floor (concrete slab), he told me that I could keep it along with the replacement RSC. He also said he would send two dehumidifier rods along with the replacement RSC, but the only problem was going to be finding a replacement RSC as the model I had was no longer made. It took a few weeks, but he finally found one that was the same dimensions, and they shipped it to me at no charge. The replacement RSC was brand new, but also a model no longer made by Cannon. This one is actually a step up from my original RSC - it's approx. 200 lbs. heavier, and has LED lights that turn on when the door is opened - and no door gap!

It took a while, but I think Cannon made good on this issue. Thanks to all for your encouragement and support.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Kanewpadle]

Good afternoon:

Here's an update on my situation with my Cannon RSC:

It took a while, but Cannon finally stood behind their product. I had a number of phone conversations with their customer service manager and asked him if there was any way the door could be adjusted, or the gap otherwise reduced. The answer was no. He explained that the gap was supposed to be there, and was part of the design as the RSC had internal, rather than external hinges, and the gap was needed for the door to open and close. I then asked if the gap in the door was within specs - and what were the specs? He said that no more than 2 quarters should fit in the gap, and if they did, I should let him know. Well, two quarters easily fit in the gap. I took photos and sent them to the manager, and he called me and asked me what I wanted to do about it. I asked him what the company did in same or similar circumstances, and he said I could have a replacement safe.

When I asked how and when this would occur as I had to figure out how to get the current RSC unbolted from the floor (concrete slab), he told me that I could keep it along with the replacement RSC. He also said he would send two dehumidifier rods along with the replacement RSC, but the only problem was going to be finding a replacement RSC as the model I had was no longer made. It took a few weeks, but he finally found one that was the same dimensions, and they shipped it to me at no charge. The replacement RSC was brand new, but also a model no longer made by Cannon. This one is actually a step up from my original RSC - it's approx. 200 lbs. heavier, and has LED lights that turn on when the door is opened - and no door gap!

It took a while, but I think Cannon made good on this issue. Thanks to all for your encouragement and support.

Regards,

Dave

Glad to see your persistence paid off.

 

[chief38]

If burglars are capable of breaking into a Bank Vault then I'd say there is NO gun safe that is impenetrable if someone has the brains, know-how, tools and time. Most home burglaries are done by punks looking to get in and out very quickly, and a good descent quality safe that is bolted down securely will usually do the job. If the burglars bring proper tools, have the time and are smart, they will get in. The better the safe the longer it will take them. That is why it is important to have the best quality safe you can afford, have it central station alarmed, hidden away in a clocked closet, and never advertise its location to anyone but trusted friends or relatives. Even with trusted people, the less people that know about it the better off you are.

As far as the OP 's question is concerned, NO - NOT ACCEPTABLE! Glad everything worked out for you!

 

[black1970]

The smart crooks will bypass the door and cut open the side or top with a 4 inch grinder. Takes about 10 minutes. Think not? I have seen it done. Too much noise you say? They wrap the grinder with bubble wrap. Too much smoke and sparks? Water. The big bad doors on gun safes are just selling points. Smart crooks go with the avenue of least resistance.

 

[Kanewpadle]

The smart crooks will bypass the door and cut open the side or top with a 4 inch grinder. Takes about 10 minutes. Think not? I have seen it done. Too much noise you say? They wrap the grinder with bubble wrap. Too much smoke and sparks? Water. The big bad doors on gun safes are just selling points. Smart crooks go with the avenue of least resistance.

Of course it's that easy. I've done it twice.

But if one is stupid enough to just place a gun safe somewhere in the home and not take extra security measures then they can accept the consequences if all goes wrong.

I've seen vacation homes broken into and the thieves stayed for over two weeks.