Carbide die and 9mm

[terry_tr6]

it makes my head hurt as to how many 9mm carbide dies RCBS, lee, Hornady, etc, have sold and how many billions of rounds have been sized with those dies and without any lube. I think you can ignore any worries about whether the die leaves a straight or taper. just set the sizing die so the shell holder does a bit of a cam over just like the instructions you got with the die. this step (at least)in reloading isn't rocket science. Save that for powder charges and projectile choices.

 

[mikld]

This thread got me wondering, so I went and looked at my 9mm dies. I have 2 RCBS, one dated '90 and one with no date; both have a full length carbide inserts. My Lee die of unknown age also has full length carbide insert in it.

I just checked 3 of my Lee sizing dies. None have "full length" carbide inserts. The ones I looked at (and have believed for many years) use only a short insert, 7/16"-1/2" long) in the mouth of the die. Carbide is difficult to machine (all the carbide I worked with hat to be ground with a diamond impregnated grinding wheel). To grind a tapered ID can be done but it adds greatly to the cost of the die, more than I think I'd pay when short straight inserts work quite well...

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I just checked 3 of my Lee sizing dies.
None have "full length" carbide inserts.
The ones I looked at (and have believed for many years) use only a short insert, 7/16"-1/2" long) in the mouth of the die.

.

A .371" pin can go ~.409" inside before it's stopped.

A .370" pin will go fully inside & is not stopped by the insert's smallest diameter.

These rough measurements closely mirror SAAMI 9x19 specs.

.

That estimate of your carbide insert's depth (.430"-.500") is essentially what I got & mine is clearly tapered.

You may not have a pin gage set to check yours but as a reloader I'm sure you have a digital caliper.

Why don't you use it to verify exactly what your carbide sized 9x19 cases measures at their mouth & at the web.

I doubt they're straight with no taper.

.

PS: I'm sure manufacturers long ago overcame the early problems they had machining tungsten carbide.
Heck, they've made jewelry out of it for decades.

.

 

[oldvette]

About 25-30 years ago when I got into 9mm reloading using my Dillon 550, I purchased the Dillon carbide die set and not long after that, I was notified by Dillon that I should request a new carbide resizing die to replace the original one. I forgot what the problem was, but the original die seemed to be OK and the rounds chambered and fired OK in both my DWM Luger and my P89 Ruger. I have always used the new die since, which also works fine.

I think the problem was that the original die sized the cases too small, and that the replacement die corrected that issue. I don't recall a taper issue.

Does anyone recall this recall/issue, and what the problem really was?

Thanks

Jack

 

[mikld]

.


.

That estimate of your carbide insert's depth (.430"-.500") is essentially what I got & mine is clearly tapered.

You may not have a pin gage set to check yours but as a reloader I'm sure you have a digital caliper.

Why don't you use it to verify exactly what your carbide sized 9x19 cases measures at their mouth & at the web.

I doubt they're straight with no taper.

.

PS: I'm sure manufacturers long ago overcame the early problems they had machining tungsten carbide.
Heck, they've made jewelry out of it for decades.

.

Thanks, but I have no need, no curiosity about my sizing dies. I don't think any of my dies have processed less than 5,000 cases and all work just fine. As a retired lifelong machinist mechanic I am familiar with carbide cutting tools, sharpening and shaping (and carbide is still as hard to machine as it was 30 years ago.) and measuring equipment (I tossed 3 digital calipers and kept my 2 dial calipers which are just as accurate and waaaaay less trouble).

 

[Engineer1911]

This may be obvious, but you bought the finest reloading 4 die set possible according to the Owner's Manual that came with that die set. Did you read the instructions?

 

[Racer X]

This may be obvious, but you bought the finest reloading 4 die set possible according to the Owner's Manual that came with that die set. Did you read the instructions?

for one of the other Lee die sets, but not the 9mm one.

 

[oysterer]

I had to look into this:

I have 2 RCBS carbide die sets #20515.

One was made in 1975, the other made in 1984. Both have been used to make tens of thousands of 9mm rounds.

I spot checked a few of my 9mm competition ammo and they are all alike:

Base is 0.389 (instead of 0.391 per spec) with a slight taper going to 0.380 at the mouth (precisely where the spec is). No hour glass.

I stay away from Lee equipment.

 

[gwpercle]

for one of the other Lee die sets, but not the 9mm one.

You read one set of instructions ... you've read them all ...right?
Gary

 

[max503]

Actually, I think the OP had a very good question. It's good to think that way if you're doing something like loading ammo.

I remember Nonte writing that 380's are cylindrical, and he used to push them up through his sizing die - in the same manner that Lee bullet sizing dies operate. I never could pull off that case sizing trick with my Lee dies back when I was loading 380's.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

You read one set of instructions ... you've read them all ...right?
Gary

Well, maybe not for the Kool-Aid...? (PRE-SWEETENED)

Cheers!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Thanks, but I have no need, no curiosity about my sizing dies.

Sorry, I just figured rather than keep repeating the same accusation you'd want to know for sure one way or the other.

.

 

[243winxb]

Jan. 2021- RCBS has tapered carbide insert for 9mm. The expander is "M" type.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/rcbs-expander-m-type-9mm-strange-black-coating.3604/full

 

[SMSgt]

People make too much of tapered cases. The die makers figured it out long ago.

 

[Racer X]

You read one set of instructions ... you've read them all ...right?
Gary

My thought was why would the Lee 4 die carbide 9mm set have different instructions than my Lee 4 die carbide .40S&W/10mm set, or my Lee 4 die carbide .38 SPL/.357 Mag set.

 

[glenwolde]

Just for grins I went and sized some FC headstamp cases with three different 9mm sizing dies. I sized three cases with each die. They were consistent within the three-case groups. Here's what I got:

Redding Pro Comp: .386 base .370 mouth
Hornady Custom Grade: same as the Redding
RCBS 1980 steel die: .386 base .368 mouth

The seemingly narrow base measurement is because of where I measured it. Since the shell holder blocks the die from going all the way down I measured with the case in the shell holder, along with a thin washer as a spacer to be sure I was measuring a sized portion of the case. I was really trying to quantify the taper and how the two carbide dies compared to the old steel die.

Not a spit's worth of difference between the three to me.

 

[roundgun]

What’s the part # for the RCBS tapered expander plug ? Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stansdds]

I just checked my 1980's era Lyman die set. The carbide ring in mine is full length and tapered.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

So, thanks, again! Due to this thread I am now aware that I can just obtain other Lyman M-type expander plugs to go with my Lyman M-type Die for other pistol calibers.

You can learn something new every day!

Cheers!

P.S. You can also obtain Lyman M-type expander plugs for use with the LEE Universal Expander Die. Search for M-type Expander and look for a links to ps-2.kev009.com.

 

[Ron IL]

I just checked on the Lee web page and the 9 mm Luger die is full length sizing. I went to the bench and had three cases sitting on the bench. One is a Hornady nickel, one is a brass Blazer, and one is a brass CBC. I put them in the press and stroked it two time for each case. Then put the mic to each of them. They all showed .372 at the neck and .389 at the base. They were range pickups so probably shot out of different guns. My die has a full length carbide insert pressed into the die. So it is a full size die and not just a neck die like some suggest. Maybe they did in the old days but not now.