Careful out there...
- Thread starter deadear dan
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I agree with all of the above, but those facts do not change the fact that the .22 LR is a lethal round . . .
In my county there were two accidental firearms deaths this summer--both by a single shot from a 22lr.
One was a national news story about a 14 year-old boy accidentally killed by his father at a local gun range with an SR22. The boy was sitting 3' behind the firing position. Coroner said the bullet entered the side of the neck at a downward angle and pierced an artery near the heart and lodged in the abdomen. The boy died from internal bleeding 1 hour later despite paramedics arriving quickly at the scene.
The other involved a man in his mid-50s who was found dead in his driveway and the coroner decided a .22 bullet lodged in his spine at the base of his skull was the cause of death. Police investigation found that the bullet traveled 2 city blocks from the backyard of a person who was target shooting with a .22 handgun and using a wooden fence as a backstop.
So I'd say the .22lr does not get the respect it deserves.
One was a national news story about a 14 year-old boy accidentally killed by his father at a local gun range with an SR22. The boy was sitting 3' behind the firing position. Coroner said the bullet entered the side of the neck at a downward angle and pierced an artery near the heart and lodged in the abdomen. The boy died from internal bleeding 1 hour later despite paramedics arriving quickly at the scene.
The other involved a man in his mid-50s who was found dead in his driveway and the coroner decided a .22 bullet lodged in his spine at the base of his skull was the cause of death. Police investigation found that the bullet traveled 2 city blocks from the backyard of a person who was target shooting with a .22 handgun and using a wooden fence as a backstop.
So I'd say the .22lr does not get the respect it deserves.
What is the best gun lube to use?
Is a .45 ACP better than a .357 magnum?
Is a .45 ACP better than a .357 magnum?
Big Cholla
Member
Made Me Cringe
gary: I just can't give your post the usual 'like' because I agree with your statement. But, Your illustrative story just made me cringe. The degree of stupidity and irresponsibility some people display in their use of ANY firearm continues to astound and alarm me. When I'm at home and hear what I think is the sound of a gunshot I jump up and race outside to try to establish what is going on. My wife berates me every time. I know firearms and what the potential damage can be. I want to know if the shot is repeated, where it is and if it was a 'drive by'. I want to know if there is anything that I can do about preventing another 'shot'. Of course 90% of the time what I heard was not the sound of a shot. I do not go outside on New Years or 4th of July night. .......
gary: I just can't give your post the usual 'like' because I agree with your statement. But, Your illustrative story just made me cringe. The degree of stupidity and irresponsibility some people display in their use of ANY firearm continues to astound and alarm me. When I'm at home and hear what I think is the sound of a gunshot I jump up and race outside to try to establish what is going on. My wife berates me every time. I know firearms and what the potential damage can be. I want to know if the shot is repeated, where it is and if it was a 'drive by'. I want to know if there is anything that I can do about preventing another 'shot'. Of course 90% of the time what I heard was not the sound of a shot. I do not go outside on New Years or 4th of July night. .......
Where's PolyMathPioneer when ya need him?
buzzkillbob
US Veteran
Um...how did the boy get shot?
14 Year Old Boy Accidentally Shot and Killed by His Father at Gun Range in Sarasota, Authorities Say
Boy standing behind father who was firing a .22 semiauto. Spent shell ricocheted off the side wall and down back of dad's shirt. Dad tried to clear it with the hand holding the pistol . . .
Triggernosis
Member
One of my neighbors kids tried to commit suicide a few years ago by shooting himself in the forehead with a 38 special and it pretty much and did the same thing. The bullet passed right down the center line of the brain an blew a silver dollar sized chunk of bone out the back of his skull. Two weeks later he was at home working a part-time job.
buzzkillbob
US Veteran
Ah...reading...I originally read it as "boy shoots father".
That's almost guaranteed.
More .22 handguns are owned than any other caliber, more rounds of .22 are manufactured/sold/fired than any other caliber. The "more killed by .22" is an assessment of commonality, not effectiveness.
In every way possible, you are wrong.
(1) Presuming you acted correctly, employ competent defense, and can clearly articulate your reasons for using lethal force, you want your attacker to live. In order to dispute your truthful account of a justifiable use of force, he will have to lie. And lying is difficult. His testimony will contradict evidence, and he'll contradict himself.
(2) I believe a key turning point in the Zimmerman trial occurred with the testimony of Rachel Jeantel, who claimed to be on the phone with Martin shortly before the shooting. Zimmerman's defense skillfully exposed the contradictions and falsehoods in her account of the phone call, without appearing to bully her. By impeaching her credibility, they undercut the prosecution's argument and forced the jury to focus on the evidence.
(3) Remember all those pictures of Trayvon Martin on the news? They looked awful sympathetic because he was 12 at the time. It would have been much more difficult to do that if the news cameras--and the jury--were confronted with the physical reality of the 6-foot-tall, heavily-built Martin. Corpses and old family photos are very non-threatening.
(4) Cops see people in emotional distress all the time. That's part of the job. If you put on a big show and act, do you know what they're going to remember? How you faked being upset. Their notes, reports, and much later, their testimony, will reflect that. At a time when your credibility is of the utmost importance, don't be an actor.
---
I strongly encourage you to read Mas Ayoob's excellent analysis of the Zimmerman trial. It starts here:
Massad Ayoob >> Blog Archive >> THE ZIMMERMAN VERDICT, PART 1
Similarly, you might consider reading Gila Hayes' excellent coverage of the Larry Hickey case.
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey_Booklet.pdf
Critically to the issues raised above, the fact that Mr Hickey's three attackers survived was key to his exoneration. In the course of trying to sue him in civil court to get at his homeowner's insurance money, they changed their story. Initially, they claimed the incident occurred in the street. Then it moved to the sidewalk. Finally, they said it happened in Hickey's driveway.
By this time, the state was prosecuting Hickey for the third time. When the jury saw their shifting testimony from the civil depositions, they returned a not-guilty verdict. Anyways, here's an excerpt from that:
I'd also suggest you--and anyone else interested in a good primer on self-defense law and realities--consider picking up and reading his book, Deadly Force: Undertanding Your Right to Self Defense.
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Now, if I remember correctly, this is not the first time we've had this discussion. You said the same thing before, and I said the same thing before. I'm not going to change your mind--you're not interested in that, and some things cannot be fixed. And me, well...I'm just right.
What I do hope is that I might be successful in encouraging some readers who are perhaps new to the armed lifestyle to seek out good education. Whether that comes from a qualified instructor or a good book or two, I leave to them.
And hopefully, that will limit the damage of your ignorance, and I'll have done something worthwhile. Good day.
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pittpa
Member
Triggernosis
Member
I have no idea - I didn't want to press the issue with the family. I was guessing probably one of those old lead round-nose bullets like cops used to carry many years ago....because the mom said that it was a snubby revolver that "had been in the kitchen cabinet for years without being touched".
Aaaahahhahahhahhhaaaa! He is gone, and that is what matters!
Further reason why this forum needs a "slap forehead" icon.
Forget just him--I could care less if someone doesn't want to educate themselves.
I'm more concerned when that idiocy gets some cheerleading behind it, and maybe somebody new who doesn't know any better gets swayed by it. Not to mention how it makes the rest of us look when morons talk like that.
Hence, I did my thing.
As I've said numerous times on another forum: "It's not my fault if the things I say make you feel stupid."
I'm more concerned when that idiocy gets some cheerleading behind it, and maybe somebody new who doesn't know any better gets swayed by it. Not to mention how it makes the rest of us look when morons talk like that.
Hence, I did my thing.
As I've said numerous times on another forum: "It's not my fault if the things I say make you feel stupid."
A better troll would have been to pick a more subtle and sympathetic position. Probably something along the lines of "rights". Toss in some triggerwords like "2nd Ammendment" (be sure to mis-spell it), and how if someone is in my home, taking my stuff, my state says I have a right to defend my stuff.
Simply baiting is no fun. What's the point of just typing dumb stuff and then getting insulted by strangers? The whole point is to illicit a response from some white knights (no, not those white knights, the internet ones) and then get the Bubbas to attack them.
Simply baiting is no fun. What's the point of just typing dumb stuff and then getting insulted by strangers? The whole point is to illicit a response from some white knights (no, not those white knights, the internet ones) and then get the Bubbas to attack them.
A gun is a gun, whatever the caliber, when you need it. The commonality of .22s might influence the statistics but it doesn't really matter - when you need a gun you will need it NOW, or you will likely never need it again.
We all make carry gun caliber choices - mine depend on clothes, where I'm going, and sometimes my mood. But I am not sure what any of that has to do with the original post.
Anyway, some lawyer thoughts for you:
If you posted that your goal is to kill good luck when the prosecution produces your S&W Forum discussion history. Your goal is to stop the attack you are being presented with. Period. Causing the death of a human being is called homicide, regardless of the adjective that might precede that noun, like justifiable, or intentional, or accidental. A moral, armed American simply wants to live through an attack so what s/he wants is to stop the attack - death of the attacker is NEVER the goal. It's a result of proper training, proper equipment, etc. But it's an end result, not a goal. That said, if you don't have the proper mindset that it takes to kill someone you probably shouldn't carry a firearm, anyway. Being prepared to use deadly force, however, is a far cry from wanting to kill someone.
Let's be careful out there in what we say, what we do, and where we go - and always be careful with your weapons.
We all make carry gun caliber choices - mine depend on clothes, where I'm going, and sometimes my mood. But I am not sure what any of that has to do with the original post.
Anyway, some lawyer thoughts for you:
If you posted that your goal is to kill good luck when the prosecution produces your S&W Forum discussion history. Your goal is to stop the attack you are being presented with. Period. Causing the death of a human being is called homicide, regardless of the adjective that might precede that noun, like justifiable, or intentional, or accidental. A moral, armed American simply wants to live through an attack so what s/he wants is to stop the attack - death of the attacker is NEVER the goal. It's a result of proper training, proper equipment, etc. But it's an end result, not a goal. That said, if you don't have the proper mindset that it takes to kill someone you probably shouldn't carry a firearm, anyway. Being prepared to use deadly force, however, is a far cry from wanting to kill someone.
Let's be careful out there in what we say, what we do, and where we go - and always be careful with your weapons.
No, I think he/she means it, and is trying to get his opinion heard. He's been around long enough, and has some coherent posts as well. Although post #46 is a little troubling, because it seems to indicate that Bonkers was going to agree with Illyia while posting as Bonkers, but forgot that he/she was logged in as Illyia. Usually a trick reserved for when you get suspended. Illyia also has more than one post agreeing with Bonkers, but they do seem to share a common reloading interest in pushing limits of load data. Lastly, Illyia's birthday is August 6, 1945, the day we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima . . .
Last edit: Interestingly, Illyia often posts right after Bonkers, and vice versa, to agree with him/her in the same thread, and they both use multiple single sentence paragraphs and random upper case words for emphasis.
In law enforcement, we used to call those things "clues . . . "
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I noticed that, too. Agreed he/they appear sincere in viewpoints expressed.
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
crank-coke-PCP, etc. Adrenaline is a VERY powerful drug as well.
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