Carry Ammo

[chief38]

People are free to do what they like - it's (barely) still a free Country.

Personally I practice with Federal 124 grain FMJ because it feels almost identical to the Federal HST 124 grain JHP which is my carry ammo. It also shoots to the same point of aim and I spend just over $11 bucks (delivered) a box of 50 for the FMJ training ammo and $34 / box of 50 for the HST's. I see no reason to shoot HST's when the FMJ version shoots pretty much the same.

I would also never use FMJ rounds in a SD gun because they could easily over penetrate and will never expand. The HST's and alike will expend their energy expanding inside a target and won't usually exit - to possibly harm an innocent bystander. That is the theory - to me it makes sense to take any and all precautions to the best of my ability, the rest is out of my hands.

 

[Warren Sear]

Carry ammo should be good for at least 100 years. I'd play it safe and change it out after 50, but that's just me.

 

[Pointblank2U]

The PD replaced our carry ammo annually & I've kept to that schedule in retirement.

We did the same thing.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Many years ago I heard a story about someone being out West and finding old .45-70 ammunition lying on some ledge or rocks or something. It all went bang when he tried it. I can't prove that story but from my experience if your ammunition has been kept safe and dry it will work 100% of the time. Since I do shoot my 9mm carry gun now and again it always has fresh ammunition on board but my EDC M649 probably hasn't been fired in more than a year. I don't fret over the ammunition for a minute. I recollect shooting ancient Remington Kleanbore ammunition with nary a hitch.

 

[bugsym]

I was carrying with full magazine + 1 in chamber (hst). When at range I would clear and then use a different magazine with my range ammo. When done I would put back the hst magazine, rack and fill magazine again. What I noticed was the hst rounds were getting dented as a result of doing this after several trips to the range. As a result I no longer carry plus 1. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

[Warren Sear]

what is "hst"?

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... in conversation with an FBI agent at a local copshop, suggested the same.

You should talk to a street cop like me. Not to be mean but most FBI Agents are lawyers and accountants. In the movie; "Public Enemies". J. Edgar Hoover asked Melvin Purvis what do we need to take down gangsters. He answered Texas Lawmen, still true today.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Ammo doesn't rot. Being in a gun doesn't change that.

A while back a senior couple my age (70s) came into the LGS. They had a gun pouch so I hover close by because I thought they had brought in a handgun to sell.

Well the couple had bought a J-frame because of civil unrest. He wanted to know why the bullets turned green. Well that old noob was monthly oiling his revolver so it be ready to go. But never wiped off the excess oil.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Carry ammo should be good for at least 100 years. I'd play it safe and change it out after 50, but that's just me.

That can be a fatal error. On Forensic Files was a story from early 1990s. A WWII Veteran kept his 1911 loaded with WWII ammo (45 years old). He lived alone and heard a noise down stairs. He went half way down the stairs and confronted the burglar who just happen to steal a .38 revolver from his previous burglary. Veteran's pistol went click, nothing happened and the bad guy (who has no training or experience with guns) point/shoot one fatal round.

 

[Doug M.]

I was carrying with full magazine + 1 in chamber (hst). When at range I would clear and then use a different magazine with my range ammo. When done I would put back the hst magazine, rack and fill magazine again. What I noticed was the hst rounds were getting dented as a result of doing this after several trips to the range. As a result I no longer carry plus 1. What do you guys think?
Thanks!

**
Warren Sear: HST is an ammo type.

Don't stop carrying +1. That is not the problem. When u train, swap the mags but don't drop the chambered round. Shoot it. Regular manual cycling is the problem.

 

[TheTinMan]

People are free to do what they like - it's (barely) still a free Country.

Personally I practice with Federal 124 grain FMJ because it feels almost identical to the Federal HST 124 grain JHP which is my carry ammo. It also shoots to the same point of aim and I spend just over $11 bucks (delivered) a box of 50 for the FMJ training ammo and $34 / box of 50 for the HST's. I see no reason to shoot HST's when the FMJ version shoots pretty much the same.

I would also never use FMJ rounds in a SD gun because they could easily over penetrate and will never expand. The HST's and alike will expend their energy expanding inside a target and won't usually exit - to possibly harm an innocent bystander. That is the theory - to me it makes sense to take any and all precautions to the best of my ability, the rest is out of my hands.

Bullet set back is a potential issue. Practicing with .38 Special and carrying .357 Magnum is a problem. However, practicing with similar ammo that has the same POI seems completely reasonable to me.

I have a little problem: Springfield's Custom Shop built me a 1911 CCO chambered in 9x23 Winchester over 15 years ago. It is my preferred EDC so I have invested in holsters and magazines. I also have two Government Model 1911s chambered in 9x23. I have a supply of Winchester Silvertips but wince every time I light one off because there aren't any more. I practice with hand loads and Winchester white box 9x23 (not that they're making more of that either - I just have more). I have checked COAL on rounds that have been chambered several times and can't measure any setback. The problem is manageable, but it's not an ideal solution.

 

[bugsym]

what is "hst"?

Federal HST

 

[bugsym]

Ok, I will try this.

Thanks!

 

[Warren Sear]

That can be a fatal error. On Forensic Files was a story from early 1990s. A WWII Veteran kept his 1911 loaded with WWII ammo (45 years old). He lived alone and heard a noise down stairs. He went half way down the stairs and confronted the burglar who just happen to steal a .38 revolver from his previous burglary. Veteran's pistol went click, nothing happened and the bad guy (who has no training or experience with guns) point/shoot one fatal round.

I would bet there is more to the story. Ammunition will last 100 years. Minimum.

I wonder what the history was of that ammo, how and where it was stored, etc.

Same for the gun. When it was last cleaned, how it was lubed, if it was in proper operating condition, etc.

I wonder if the story is even true.

 

[gjgalligan]

You should talk to a street cop like me. Not to be mean but most FBI Agents are lawyers and accountants. In the movie; "Public Enemies". J. Edgar Hoover asked Melvin Purvis what do we need to take down gangsters. He answered Texas Lawmen, still true today.

Sorry, but I have know some "street cops" that were barley aware of where the bullets went in the gun.


As far as "old" ammo being a problem, if stored properly it has just about as good odds of firing as does new ammo.

Anything made by man can fail at anytime.

 

[Oldsalt66]

I'm just curious...

For setting up your carry, if a setback condition is a possibility, would it be prudent to chamber a round by hand, and not letting the slide slam, then inserting the mag with the rest of the carry ammo?

That can cause extractor damage depending on the type of pistol.

It's a bad practice.

 

[Mongo1958]

How long should one keep the Carry ammo in there every day carry gun? i usually shoot my ammo once a year and get new out.
What does the forum think

I'm good with that but some times I forget.
I just got some new self defense ammo so I'll rotate it soon.

 

[BC38]

I'm a 6 months to a year cycler…

Sounds about like my habits. Though I'm not really very rigorous about it.
I don't cycle the same round of ammo through my gun a bunch of times either.
I'll unload & clean the pocket lint out of my P3AT every couple of months but cycle the loaded round to the bottom of the mag each time so I'm not loading the same round repeatedly - specifically to reduce the likelihood of setback.
The trouble with setback is you don't know it has happened when the round is sitting in the barrel.

 

[biku324]

That can cause extractor damage depending on the type of pistol.

It's a bad practice.

I've had none using this method on Browning High Powers, Smith 5906s, 4506s, Glock 22s, M-9s, and (so far) Shield 2.0 in daily carry since the 1980s. Is this a 1911 issue?

 

[BC38]

I've had none using this method on Browning High Powers, Smith 5906s, 4506s, Glock 22s, M-9s, and (so far) Shield 2.0 in daily carry since the 1980s. Is this a 1911 issue?

I haven't either, but I have read the same caution against it from several respectable sources.
So now I only load from the mag. Why take chances?

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I would bet there is more to the story. Ammunition will last 100 years. Minimum.

I wonder what the history was of that ammo, how and where it was stored, etc.

Same for the gun. When it was last cleaned, how it was lubed, if it was in proper operating condition, etc.

I wonder if the story is even true.

Yes its true. Forensic Files Season 11 Episode 6.

How many octogenarians maintain their shooting skills from when they were a Green Beret or a LEO SWAT?

BTW NATO shelf life for Small Arms ammunition is eighty (80) years. Where did you invent one hundred (100) years? Anecdotal or factual?

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Sorry, but I have know some "street cops" that were barley aware of where the bullets went in the gun.


As far as "old" ammo being a problem, if stored properly it has just about as good odds of firing as does new ammo.

Anything made by man can fail at anytime.

Big difference between Michigan "street cops" and Texas Lawmen.

The keyword is; "if stored properly". Not everyone is gun savvy and an example is the bubba who leaves his handgun in his car's glovebox for months at a time (or their boat).

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I dunn know.....I have a nine that has the same ammo in it from several years ago.....Iffen I wuz you I wouldn't stand in front of it.......I have a cartridge collection of shotgun/pistol/rifle ammo. Much from almost a century ago..........Bet any cartridge in that collection will go bang on the first try.........I have 30/06 Greek HXP from the CMP that was stored in hot and cold warehouses.......All of it makes my Garand go bang.

 

[38magnum]

I'm just curious...

For setting up your carry, if a setback condition is a possibility, would it be prudent to chamber a round by hand, and not letting the slide slam, then inserting the mag with the rest of the carry ammo?

on a 1911, you load the magazine, insert it into the magazine well, pull slide back, and release slide. easy peasy.

the problem is that MOST people who "chamber a round by hand" end up having issues, major issues. like personal injury.

Many people who hand chamber a round, insert the round fully into the chamber, and then let the slide fall home.
that is bad for the gun, the extractor is meant to have the case rim slide up into it in the split second the slide is removing the top round from the magazine.

 

[sigp220.45]

You should talk to a street cop like me. Not to be mean but most FBI Agents are lawyers and accountants. In the movie; "Public Enemies". J. Edgar Hoover asked Melvin Purvis what do we need to take down gangsters. He answered Texas Lawmen, still true today.

Like Uvalde PD?

 

[Doug M.]

Agency culture is only part of the issue. The Uvalde debacle involved people who are not even close to members of my tribe.

 

[bushmaster1313]

I find it unusual that so many posters seem to not be shooting their carry weapon with their carry ammo very often.

 

[biku324]

I haven't either, but I have read the same caution against it from several respectable sources.
So now I only load from the mag. Why take chances?

I've read all kinds of things on firearms from respectable sources that I have not been able to replicate.

Maybe someday I'll have an extractor problem from inserting loaded magazines into semi-autos with the action closed. Until that happens, I'll continue my 5 decade-old daily practices.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

I find it unusual that so many posters seem to not be shooting their carry weapon with their carry ammo very often.

I can't afford to, but my handloads push the same weight bullets at about the same velocities to the same point of aim, and I shoot lots of them.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Setback

Bullet setback is critical in the 40 S&W caliber with the 180 grain hollow point projectiles. There is no extra space in that casing so a tiny amount of setback can dramatically increase the pressures. This is not so much of a problem with the 165 grain hollow points and even less so with 165 gr. FMC because the HP has more mass lower in the case.

I notice it in the 180 gr. HP group size. The rounds that have been chambered
repeatedly are all over the silhouette, 15 inch flyers at 12 yards. However, with 165 Gr. Winchester Ranger Bonded HP, which has been handled with the recommendations in this thread, the group is fist sized right over the heart.

Best to All!
BrianD