Carrying Concealed really Does Mean Concealed

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Headline in Florida newspaper:

Man shopping for coffee creamer at Walmart attacked by vigilante for carrying gun he was legally permitted to have

BRANDON — Clarence Daniels had just crossed the threshold of Walmart's front doors on Tuesday, in search of coffee creamer for his wife, when the gun in hip holster gave a well-intentioned vigilante the idea he was up to something more sinister.

From the Walmart parking lot at 11110 Causeway Boulevard, Michael Foster, 43, of Lithia had watched Daniels, 62, take from his car the handgun — for which he holds a concealed carry permit — and place it on his hip underneath his coat, Hillsborough sheriff's deputies reported.

As Daniels entered the store, a label for the coffee creamer in his pocket in case he forgot the brand, Foster tackled him to the ground and placed him in a choke hold, sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon said.

"He's got a gun!" deputies said Foster shouted.

"I have a permit!" Daniels yelled back multiple times, McKinnon said.

The men struggled and were separated until law enforcement arrived on scene just before noon. Foster was arrested and charged with battery.

"Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen," McKinnon said. "We understand it's alarming for people to see other people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed weapons permit holders."

If you have elected to carry concealed it really is incumbent upon you to make sure that your handgun is in fact concealed. In view of the recent events surrounding public shootings combined with the fact that not everybody understands nor approves of the concept of citizen concealed carrying the onus is directly upon us to make sure that our choice of going about our day in an armed capacity is not inadvertently broadcast to the surrounding populace.

Three weeks before the 9/11 terrorist attacks I was flying back from the Midwest to the East coast. I had to switch planes in Washington D.C. After sitting on the plane for what seemed an unusual amount of time I asked a passing steward what the difficulty was delaying our departure.

The steward replied that the air phone on the back of the seat in front of me was not properly seated in its cradle and he was going to the galley to get a knife to employ in trying to reseat the phone.

I had a small folding knife with a blade measuring 1 7/8 inches in length in my pocket. I took out the knife and reseated the phone handset just as the steward returned with a plastic eating knife.

Suddenly the woman seated behind me notices what I am doing and screams at the top of her lungs...HE'S GOT A KNIFE!!!!!! I looked at the steward and said in a calm tired voice that FAA regulations allowed passengers to possess a knife with a blade length not exceeding 3 inches. The steward replied that actually the regulation allowed knives up to 4 inches in length and walked away. The snowflake behind said in a voice that was loud enough to be heard in the cockpit with the engines running, WELL..HE WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED ON ANY SCHOOL GROUNDS WITH THAT KNIFE!!!!!! I was sorely tempted to respond by informing this fool that it was my considered opinion that in an earlier age she would not have survived infancy but instead I just promised myself that I would refrain from having to go anywhere that I could not drive to in the future.

Headline 7 days ago:

Bodyguard for ex-British PM David Cameron reportedly leaves gun inside plane bathroom

A member of the British police unit tasked with protecting former Prime Minister David Cameron is being disciplined after reportedly leaving his gun in the bathroom on a transatlantic flight earlier this week.

The weapon, believed to be a 9mm Glock pistol, was found near the toilet by a passenger on a British Airways flight set to depart New York for London – and delayed take-off by about an hour, according to The Daily Mail. The newspaper added that the gun was removed from the plane.

“We are aware of the incident on a flight into the U.K. on February 3 and the officer involved has since been removed from operational duties,” the Metropolitan Police said in a statement. "We are taking this matter extremely seriously and an internal investigation is taking place."

Passports belonging to Cameron and the officer also were found next to the weapon, The Sun reported.

Cameron, who was prime minister for six years, resigned in 2016 after the U.K. voted in favor of Brexit.

Monday’s incident though isn’t the first time a British bodyguard has been accused of leaving behind a weapon.

In 2008, an officer belonging to former Prime Minister Tony Blair’s security detail left a loaded pistol inside a Starbucks bathroom in London, according to The Sun.

That officer reportedly was removed from operational duties after a barista spotted the firearm.

“She knows she has messed up bad,” a senior police source told the newspaper at the time.

I guess the moral of these news stories is that when going armed in the public domain it would be helpful that not only are we in fact carrying concealed but just as importantly we actually know where the firearm is in fact located at all times. It appears that not everybody received the memo about this matter.

Harry
 
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In the peoples republic I live in if your around a city you had better be up on how well you conceal. There are many people that just love to put in a man with a gun call. I have personally witnessed this happening. Your not a cop you probably will lose your permit if spotted. No permit you cannot own a handgun period.

My ideas on carrying a concealed weapon are it should not be detectable unless for some reason your frisked or wanded.

FWIW I have had a unrestricted carry permit since the early 1970s.
 
While open carry is legal in my state I ALWAYS carry completely concealed. I’ll downsize to a .380 to accomplish that just b/c I don’t want the hassle that comes w/being “outed.” Some people come apart if the see a gun, besides I enjoy flying below the radar.
 
In Connecticut (the constitution state LOL) the law states you must carry in a way as to not alarm anyone. If someone spots you gun drops a dime on you or otherwise freaks out you very well may be arrested. Breach of peace at the least would be the charge. There was another Wal-Mart shooting in the past couple days so that doesn't help.
 
I agree with Old cop. Open carry is legal in this state also but I carry AIWB for 2 reasons. 1: I can’t carry any other way (for me the way I dress) really concealed and appendix allows access from just about all positions. Also I don’t want to telegraph to anyone that I’m carrying a gun!
2: I try to be considerate of the people that don’t like guns and who are freaked out when they see one or think they see one. JMO

I like a nice slow peaceful day! ( old guy). I’m sure everyone on this forum has had a situation that made them REAL uncomfortable while out in public for whatever reason, so you know what I mean.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
 
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I think people should be able to carry how they want, open or concealed.

Having said that, unless you're a uniformed officer or armed guard, open carry opens you up (pun intended... :D ) to potential problems, whether it's some well-intentioned, but misinformed, person calling the police on you, to someone deciding to jump you and take your gun, etc. In my opinion, concealed carry is a much better option. While most people may be oblivious to anything not involving them, such is not always the case, obviously. I prefer to go about my business armed and unnoticed.

How concealed one should be should be dictated by their own temperament as well as their environment. My general goal is to conceal such that any printing that may occur is not obvious, which I accomplish through a combination of gear and wardrobe. I can carry my Beretta PX4 Compact, a spare mag, and a 642 BUG pretty easily (not to mention a trauma kit, flashlight, and a pocket knife). If I determine I need more discretion, I can carry my 642 by itself.

However, I've seen concealed carry that is barely concealed. I've mentioned this several times before, but I once saw someone "concealing" a gun under a polo shirt that was so snug I could easily tell he was carrying a Glock 26 or 27 from several feet away just from how badly he was printing.

Everyone has to decide for themselves what works best for them and their situations, but when it comes to carrying a gun, I think discretion is the better part of valor.

Just my opinion.
 
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So basically, some idiot wannabe action hero tackled a senior citizen for carrying a firearm.

It seems to me that the guy had to be looking for trouble, itching for an opportunity to play the hero, and subsequently jumped the gun by stupidly attacking some old man in the parking lot like a total thug. He's lucky that nobody else was there to intervene and come to the old man's aid.

Honestly, this is why you don't go jumping somebody just because you think that they might be up to something. At the very most Mr. Vigilante should have followed the old man inside the store, kept an eye on him from a safe distance, and in the event in which the old man actually drew his gun, THEN he should have done something, but that would have actually taken guts, unlike preemptively tackling an old man from behind and putting him in a chokehold.

What a jerk.
 
In Connecticut (the constitution state LOL) the law states you must carry in a way as to not alarm anyone. If someone spots you gun drops a dime on you or otherwise freaks out you very well may be arrested. Breach of peace at the least would be the charge. There was another Wal-Mart shooting in the past couple days so that doesn't help.

In Florida we have a statute that covers unintentional open carry for just that reason.
 
In Florida we have a statute that covers unintentional open carry for just that reason.

Glad to hear that! Didn't used to be that way, either for unintenional OC or obvious printing.

Before we moved to SC in 2007, it seemed the the most emphasis on CCW by LE and instructors in Fl was the "concealed" part.

Didn't matter much what you were packing as long as no one else could see that you were packing it. That was constantly drilled into the mindset of the CCW holder.

Even if I could, I wouldn't OC at my age/shape and I'm even more concerned with concealment and printing. Just want to look like what I am, a harmless old guy tottering around ...till I'm not.

Rob
 
Pa allows open carry everywhere except Philadelphia.

( as a footnote:Until the mid-90s Philadelphia didn't recognize Permits to carry from other Pa Counties. )

IN 1978 I got a Pa "Permit to carry" concealed so I didn't have to open carry while wondering around in Penn's Woods.

Now....... well times have changed..... I carry concealed 99% of the time I'm off my property..... hi-cap 9mm in a Sparks IWB holster and cover garment.
 
It's amusing the number of people that will take one example, and an outlier example at that, and cite it as a reason why their way is the best way.

AIWB would have prevented that! Sure, but 'that' was a single occurrence, and people blowing their junk off with AIWB carry outnumbers it easily 100 to 1.

I carry whatever way I feel like, openly, concealed, or indifferently. I continue to hold that my firearms carry is no different than carry of a wallet or wear of a wristwatch. No outlier events are going to change that.

I see open carry here several times a year- I see unintentionally poor concealed carry often. Nobody seems to notice, or care if they do.

That said, I don't praise or fault anyone for the way they prefer to carry. I just get a chuckle out of the so-called logic though.
 
I've never heard of printing being illegal, and I live in NY so I've heard plenty of dumb laws. Carry how you want, most people are so oblivious to what's going on around them you could be wheeling a Howitzer through Walmart and they wouldn't notice...
 
The victim in the OP did nothing wrong, and had it been me, I would have pressed the DA to up the charges to battery on a senior citizen, thus increasing the penalty.

Florida requires CC to be concealed from "ordinary" view, not impossible to detect or suspect. Don't overthink it.
 
In NY concealed means concealed. I have never seen printing here because most of the year it is cool enough to warrant clothes that conceal and layer well.

The use of gun concealment products like tactical bags fanny packs that are huge and even sneaky pete holsters draw attention to those in the know. For exam pl le church security teams and Law enforcement I know notice such products.

The are trained or for civilian non gunners are shown photos so they identify such products
 
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