Carrying where "No Guns" signs are posted.

[blujax01]

I read time and again how folks think that it's not against the law to carry where the sign is posted. That it's "The store owner's rules and I can be asked to leave but it's not The Law".
It is law that one cannot carry in a posted area. The penalty is that one may be asked to leave by the shop owner. And if one refuses, the cops will be called.
A big deal was made in Ohio when the CC law was extended to bars (or restaurants that also serve alcohol). All of us trumpeted "hey - just post a sign. We'll either leave our guns outside or go elsewhere." Now I read a lot about folks pointedly ignoring this.

And when the media shouts "CC HOLDERS IGNORE WARNING SIGNS AND THE LAW - NONE OF US ARE SAFE" it won't be pretty.

I have to ask - when I see one of these signs it is damned obvious that the owner of this private property does not want anyone carrying a gun on their premises. Why would anyone ignore that property owners constitutional right? If your property is posted "no trespassing" how would you feel if you looked up and someone was standing in your yard? It's the same thing.

 

[Lenny_D]

If you feel this way don't carry if posted. You can't regulate what other people will do or not do. As far as the media using any indiscretions against gun owners happens all the time. I'm not really understanding where you want this discussion to go. There will always be otherwise law abiding citizens justifying the carry of their weapons in places that do not allow such carry. There will always be people who drive 5 miles over the speed limit. I guess some think that the safety of themselves and family, along with the 2nd amendment trumps what a sign may or may not say.

 

[blujax01]

... along with the 2nd amendment trumps what a sign may or may not say.

This is one direction the discussion could take.

Who is to say that the 2nd amendment right trumps private property rights? You are saying in essence that if I post my property "no guns allowed" or "no fishing" or "no whatever" that you have the right to ignore my rights.

And that ain't right.

 

[CigarGuy]

I will not give my business to a shop owner if he has a signed posted. Sure, you can "secretly" carry in, but WHY would you support a store like that?

 

[sarge1967]

I dropped my Costco membership in Phoenix because they posted signs forbidding weapons. I will not frequent Target or many other places due to their stances on weapons or other Liberal political bias.

 

[gdauth]

This is one direction the discussion could take.

Who is to say that the 2nd amendment right trumps private property rights? You are saying in essence that if I post my property "no guns allowed" or "no fishing" or "no whatever" that you have the right to ignore my rights.

And that ain't right.

I agree with you 100%. This issue is not just limited to gun vs property rights. I see people who are more than willing to impose on someone else and violate their rights so that they may enjoy their own perceived rights. This just shows a lack of respect for our fellow citizens. Common courtesy should dictate that people respect each other. If you don't respect me, don't expect a friendly reception.

 

[FTG-05]

I will not give my business to a shop owner if he has a signed posted. Sure, you can "secretly" carry in, but WHY would you support a store like that?

I totally agree with this. The correct solution to "gun free zones" is capitalism. Let the market decide that GFZs are a money loser, by gun owners not giving their money, businesses will stop doing it.

Of course, this takes a concerted effort by gun owners. Which is a big "if" due to so many that think seeing some movie is more important than the 2nd amendment.

 

[RevTracy]

This is one direction the discussion could take.

Who is to say that the 2nd amendment right trumps private property rights? You are saying in essence that if I post my property "no guns allowed" or "no fishing" or "no whatever" that you have the right to ignore my rights.

And that ain't right.

You are correct! I still remember a comment made by a professor in a business law class I attended: "yes, you have rights...but only until they begin to infringe upon my rights." This is something many people fail to understand.

 

[2ndshift]

I'm looking at this as what right does the shop owner to tell you that you don't have the right to protect your family or yourself. I agree at not supporting those businesses that don't support your carry rights. At the same time there may be a situation that you don't have a choice but to do business with said shop. As such I think a person's right to be safe trumps someone's antigun agenda.

 

[hudsonvalley]

I will not give my business to a shop owner if he has a signed posted. Sure, you can "secretly" carry in, but WHY would you support a store like that?

I agree with that statement so much I won't buy ammo at Walmart anymore...they sell it because its profitable and in their best business interest but remember when they got rid of all evil guns? I still go in but won't buy anything gun related...my local gun store has everything I need and is a kindred spirit.

 

[CigarGuy]

I agree with that statement so much I won't buy ammo at Walmart anymore...they sell it because its profitable and in their best business interest but remember when they got rid of all evil guns? I still go in but won't buy anything gun related...my local gun store has everything I need and is a kindred spirit.

NOT a WalMart shopper, either. For anything. I thought I was the only one.
I give my ammo biz to my local reloader.

 

[FTG-05]

I'm looking at this as what right does the shop owner to tell you that you don't have the right to protect your family or yourself. I agree at not supporting those businesses that don't support your carry rights. At the same time there may be a situation that you don't have a choice but to do business with said shop. As such I think a person's right to be safe trumps someone's antigun agenda.

Find me one example of a business owner telling you that you don't have "the right to protect your family or yourself." Find just one.

No one is forcing you go into that business - that is purely a decision made by you, no one else.

As far as you comment about having no choice but to do business with said shop, my bet is that is extremely small number of instances, and even then you still have choices.

 

[Lenny_D]

Who is to say that the 2nd amendment right trumps private property rights? You are saying in essence that if I post my property "no guns allowed" or "no fishing" or "no whatever" that you have the right to ignore my rights.

And that ain't right

I would not equate a no fishing sign to a no guns allowed sign. Fishing isn't recognized in the US Constitution. I'm also not espousing that a ccw holder disregard a "No Guns Allowed" sign. I believe as stated by previous posters that I just would not patronize those establishments. In reality though if cc was done right how would you know anyone was disregarding the sign?
Although a restaurant,movie theater or retail store is privately owned it is dependent on public patronage to exist so I'm not sold on the no tresspassing or fishing comparison.

 

[gdauth]

Who is to say that the 2nd amendment right trumps private property rights? You are saying in essence that if I post my property "no guns allowed" or "no fishing" or "no whatever" that you have the right to ignore my rights.

And that ain't right

I would not equate a no fishing sign to a no guns allowed sign. Fishing isn't recognized in the US Constitution. I'm also not espousing that a ccw holder disregard a "No Guns Allowed" sign. I believe as stated by previous posters that I just would not patronize those establishments. In reality though if cc was done right how would you know anyone was disregarding the sign?
Although a restaurant,movie theater or retail store is privately owned it is dependent on public patronage to exist so I'm not sold on the no tresspassing or fishing comparison.

In some jurisdictions, the No Guns Allowed sign has the force of law. Are you telling me that you would violate the law?

 

[Lenny_D]

In some jurisdictions, the No Guns Allowed sign has the force of law. Are you telling me that you would violate the law?

I'm not "telling" you what I'd do. I would tell you that the last three big media grabbing headlines about mass shootings have ALL occured in gun free zones. You make up your own mind and I'll do the same.

 

[StatesRightist]

A couple of thoughts:

There is a concept called "higher law," which states that some rights trump man made laws. It's recognized in our system, English Common Law and Hindi law among others. The right to defend yourself and your family is one of those higher laws.

The your lawn or home analogy is completely off base, you do not live in you sub shop, it does not have the same legal standing in many jurisdictions as your actual home.

I rarely, if ever go into someplace where no carry signs are posted, however, I'm sure all of the dead in Colorado wish someone had been able to defend them. Gun free zones simply do not work and endanger the public. In the end, your right to be an anti-gun loon does not trump the public's right to protect themselves. I do not see where this even deserves debate.

Most of the above I addressed from a principle/theory standpoint. That said, I agree with most on here, the polite thing to do is go to a similar business that does allow CCW and respect the sign if at all possible. Why create strife if you can avoid it?

 

[TexasArmed]

I agree with that statement so much I won't buy ammo at Walmart anymore...they sell it because its profitable and in their best business interest but remember when they got rid of all evil guns? I still go in but won't buy anything gun related...my local gun store has everything I need and is a kindred spirit.

My comments following here only apply to Texas!!!
I just came from a Walmart Store and I carried. I do it all the time. In Texas if a store really does not want someone with a CHL to carry there, then they can post a legal 30.06 sign or a 51% sign. Otherwise its a suggestion. If anyone there thinks I am carrying and asks me I have an obligation to leave. But I agree with other posters, if I see any kind of no gun sign, if it is a legal sign I just don't go there, if it is
not a legal sign, I probably won't shop there either.

To me its like a yellow sign with a speed limit posted on it.
Thats a recommended speed, and is not enforcable.

Even if a business has no sign at all and confronts you about not carrying there, you are required by law to comply. But why shop with any business which wishes to compromise my
safety by requring me not to carry. Does anyone think for a minute that such a business would accept liability if a criminal assaults you on their property. I feel that they ought to be held liable once the no gun signs go up if anything happens on their property such as a criminal assault.

 

[schutzen]

My take on the Wal-Mart gun issue is Wal-Mart got a bad rap. Two of our three local Wal-Mart never stopped selling firearms. The third one did and I asked the manager why. His answer was, "We did not sell enough guns to make it profitable. We can make more money selling auto care items in that space." Sarah Brady and VPC may have touted some of the Wal-Marts dropping firearms, but I do not believe it ever was a corporate policy. They were only dropped if local management chose to do so.

 

[Florida Guy]

Even if a business has no sign at all and confronts you about not carrying there, you are required by law to comply. But why shop with any business which wishes to compromise my
safety by requring me not to carry. Does anyone think for a minute that such a business would accept liability if a criminal assaults you on their property. I feel that they ought to be held liable once the no gun signs go up if anything happens on their property such as a criminal assault.

I agree 100%

 

[Road Rat]

I totally IGNORE all such silly signs!

AND, it is NOT the same as posting your private property with NO HUNTING signs!!

We are talking about places where the public is invited in to buy whatever they might be selling. You are talking about your private property.

One local stop-n-go type gas station put up a sign that guns were not welcome and I went in and handed the owner one of the little cards explaining what I had to do get get a CCW...as compared to his customers who don't have a CCW. I explained that I would not be back as long as my sidearm was not welcome!

Next day the sign was gone......

I will not be a victim in a restaurant sitting on my hands if some nut case drops by to get even with his wife/etc.

You do whatever you feel is right. I'll carry unless it is illegal!