CAST LEAD BULLETS - TOO HARD???

[jtcarm]

I dunno why you're not getting leading in the .38 special now, unless your revolver has super-tight dimensions or the bullets are larger than the nominal .358 diameter.

I bought a box of commercial cast .38 WCs about 20 years ago and still have probably 475 you're welcome to if you're in the Ft. Worth area.

I'd go with swaged bullets from Speer or Hornady for light loads.

I don't shoot those infernal shell-shuckers, but assume bullets have to be harder just to feed.

I'm sure this will draw any number of acrimonious replies, but I also have about the same amount left of a box of Penn 200 grain .44
TCs, also bought in the 90s. 4.5 grains of BE left a lot of lead just ahead of my M-24s forcing cone.
My home-cast LBT 230 OWC from straight WW alloy sized to .431 have no problems with lighter loads.

LASRC has it right on when they state leading is caused by bullets that are too hard, not too soft.

 

[noylj]

If you cast your own and DON'T size the bullets, the hardness of the alloy is not important.
An alloy or 7-10 BHN is great for .38 Special and .45 Auto.
An alloy of 12-15 is more than hard enough for 9mm, .40S&W, and any thing else up to about 1500fps.
The only rule I know for lead bullets is the bullets must fit your barrel. Sometimes that means at least 0.001" over groove diameter and sometimes it means at least 0.002" over groove diameter.
Hard alloys lead because they don't seal the bore and gas cutting burns of lead. Soft bullets will "expand" to seal the bore, but if too soft for the velocity will lead along the forward edge of the rifling (they won't "grab" the rifling.
I find the so-called "soft" alloys of Missouri Bullets and mastercastbullets.com are just right for everything except super hot magnum loads where only a gas check will work any way. These are still harder than the hard alloys that were used by Keith for his casting for .44 Mag and other cartridges.

 

[noylj]

For revolvers, just for those who don't know, fit includes the throats of the cylinder as well as the barrel's groove diameter. Also, the forcing cone needs to be of the right geometry and fairly smooth.
The bullet should be a very snug fit in all the throats and at least 0.001" over the groove diameter.
Revolvers, which I very seldom shoot, are the only time I would even think about sizing a cast bullet.

 

[jtcarm]

For revolvers, just for those who don't know, fit includes the throats of the cylinder as well as the barrel's groove diameter. Also, the forcing cone needs to be of the right geometry and fairly smooth.
The bullet should be a very snug fit in all the throats and at least 0.001" over the groove diameter.
Revolvers, which I very seldom shoot, are the only time I would even think about sizing a cast bullet.

Bingo! If the chamber throats are smaller than bore or forcing cone, they're not going to shoot cast bullets well and the throats have to be opened up.

Along with being too hard, every commercial cast boolit I ever tried was undersized. .38/.357 are normally sized .358. Well, unless you own a Freedom Arms, which are built to very tight tolerances, expect revolver chamber throats to be at least .001 over that. This means the bullet has to obdurate even more to seal the chamber throat and prevent gas from escaping around the bullet. Shoot a hard-cast .358 bullet from a .3595 chamber throat with light charge and you will normally get leading. The harder the bullet and the more undersized, the more pressure it needs to seal the throat.

Yes, there are exceptions, but that is the general consensus nowadays, and it agrees 100% with my experience.

 

[Inspector-Callahan]

Better Bullets...

This is the caster I am talking about.

King Shooters Supply

I have shot thousands of Roger's Better Bullets with zero problems at various velocities in numerous calibers. Whatever his hardness is at seems to run well at a wide range of velocities, although I run most of my loads below 1,200fps. The thing I am most amazed by, is his QC. I still have yet to find a bad one. (and I keep telling them that) On top of that, Pat and Roger are both great people and do their absolute best to take care of their customers. I feel very fortunate that they are within driving distance.

I have also shot at least several thousand of Bob Palermo's Penn Bullets in 45ACP/9mm & 44Mag with zero issues.

IC

 

[Moonman]

I've just started shooting some Penn Bullets 9MM SWC's and they look to be a fine load for me.

 

[41steve]

Lead Bullets

22,s are coated in the waxy type lubricant or copper coated and don't lead or lead up the bore very little , Soft lead pistol bullets will lead like h@#$ ! , just look at the Original .357 magnum loadings in 1935 with that soft lead 158 SWC especially at the front of the chamber or forcing cone at the beginning of the rifleing , even with hard cast the faster u push them out the bore the more chance u have of leading most of the time it isin't that big of a deal unless u are using real soft lead bullets

 

[Moonman]

Understanding BULLET FIT, LUBE and BRINELL HARDNESS in relation to BULLET SPEED is MUCH MISUNDERSTOOD.

Folks need to read more about SHOOTING LEAD BULLETS.

 

[ozo]

Understanding BULLET FIT, LUBE and BRINELL HARDNESS in relation to BULLET SPEED is MUCH MISUNDERSTOOD.

Folks need to read more about SHOOTING LEAD BULLETS.

Very misunderstood !
There are a million+ lead bullet experts on forums that simply regurgitate what they read.....right or wrong.

There is also misleading info from commercial bullet casters when they explain the 'mixes' they use. Because of the economy, many are using cheap recycled metals.

I wonder what miracles Elmer Keith would produce today if he had just the lube technology we now have......

This is where I have to stand up tall for Robert Palermo. Bob has put his heart and soul into creating the finest lead bullets money can buy. Guess what, he also achieved that goal. He created /uses his own lube, he does not use recycled metals, and has his own foundry. He also is his hands on QC supervisor.
If you have a question for Penn Bullets, you get a quick answer from Bob, not a secretary or receptionist.

The absolute most accurate projectile I have used in .38special and .357magnum, rifle and handgun, by far, is Penn's 158gr TCBB sized to .3585
I have the others....Hornady, Missouri, Berry's, etc. and occasionally load them or shoot some old stock I loaded years ago. I can tell a big difference between them.

If you don't know Penn it's your loss. Try some, and if for some reason you don't like them, send 'em to me. I think you will also be surprised at his prices.......I know you will be at his quality. Oh, even lately, his shipping time has been fast.