CCW on Indian Reservations

[REM 3200]

I was wondering if anyone has any experiences, good or bad, with concealed carry on an Indian reservation.

I live close to and work on an Indian reservation. The powers that be say no concealed carry on the reservation. However, when it comes to criminal jurisdiction, the Tribal Courts only have authority over Indians. The Tribal Police can still arrest and charge non-Indians with a crime but it has to be done according to State Statute through the County District Court (cross deputazation agreement). Our dysfunctional Tribal Council has not and will not pass any law to allow concealed carry on the reservation.

I have been told that should anyone who is licensed to carry be arrested for concealed carry on the reservation and charged through the District Court, the Judge will dismiss the charges as the District Court has no authority to enforce Tribal law while State law allows for concealed carry.

I have not heard of any such instances taking place but it proposes some interesting possibilities. I just wanted to hear if anyone has any experience with this.

I don't think I would like to be the test case.

 

[blujax01]

In Indiana, as I wrote, you can even carry into a bank with the 'sign.' Ohio has a LOT of strange CCW laws, I have family there.
Here "CONCEALED" means CONCEALED, not that strange thing you have about it has to be on a seat, or seatbelt or something, also you don't need to inform LEO's about your CCW. We also have LIFETIME CCW permits for like $130.
You guys are better than California but still have a LONG way to go.

From www.handgunlaw.us/states/indiana.pdf

From "Indiana Firearm Law Reference Manual 3rd Edition" by Bryan Lee Ciyou, Esq. (Used with Permission)
Retail Establishments With "No Handguns Allowed" Posted at Entry: As a possessor with a real property interest, a retailer, has the right to limit, and qualify the right to enter the property, subject to not carrying a handgun. It would be improper to enter, and the Licensee would be subject to ejection for possession of a handgun thereat. Failure to leave once requested, would subject the Licensee to arrest for criminal trespass.

 

[hiram2005]

From www.handgunlaw.us/states/indiana.pdf

From "Indiana Firearm Law Reference Manual 3rd Edition" by Bryan Lee Ciyou, Esq. (Used with Permission)
Retail Establishments With "No Handguns Allowed" Posted at Entry: As a possessor with a real property interest, a retailer, has the right to limit, and qualify the right to enter the property, subject to not carrying a handgun. It would be improper to enter, and the Licensee would be subject to ejection for possession of a handgun thereat. Failure to leave once requested, would subject the Licensee to arrest for criminal trespass.

1 OLD 311 is correct. Let me break it down even further for you. Get it to the basics.

In Ohio if you carry into a place posted No Guns, you can be arrested for that. You are breaking a law that Ohio has in effect.
In Indiana, a sign posted"No Guns" at a business carries no weight of law. If you are found with a gun in an Indiana business that is posted "No Guns" the management must ask or demand that you leave their premises. If you refuse, then they may call LE to have you removed, then if you still refuse you can be arrested for trespass.

What LE cannot do in Indiana is arrest you for carrying a gun into a posted business. The arrest is for trespass after you refuse to leave. There will be no charge of a firearm violation as there is no law on the books in Indiana to charge you with.

I know the firearms laws of my state, I have had my LTCH since I was 18 years old (now 51) and I believe 1 OLD 311 has had his about the same number of years, yes we are good friends, now for about 3 years.

 

[hiram2005]

I will make it even simpler.

Ohio business owner to 911: Oh my God, he has a gun on my property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come get him ,I'm scared!!!!!!!!!!!

Ohio police arrive, arrest person for breaking Ohio state law pertaining to gun on posted no gun property.

Indiana business owner to 911: Oh my God, he has a gun on my property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come get him,I'm scared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indiana police arrive, ask business owner if he wants person to leave his business. If the answer is yes, officer will ask person for ID and LTCH, if he has both, officer will advise person that management is aking that he leave. If person does so, end of story. If person refuses he can be arrested for trespass.

 

[rilkil23]

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I don't want to spend the night hog tied and locked in a teepee. I get really cold and have spacial issues so I would just open carry my long bow.

 

[blujax01]

I will make it even simpler.

Ohio business owner to 911: Oh my God, he has a gun on my property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come get him ,I'm scared!!!!!!!!!!!

Ohio police arrive, arrest person for breaking Ohio state law pertaining to gun on posted no gun property.

Indiana business owner to 911: Oh my God, he has a gun on my property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come get him,I'm scared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indiana police arrive, ask business owner if he wants person to leave his business. If the answer is yes, officer will ask person for ID and LTCH, if he has both, officer will advise person that management is aking that he leave. If person does so, end of story. If person refuses he can be arrested for trespass.

You really think that's how it would go down?

Make that a Bank Manager call to 911. "There's an armed man in my bank and he refuses to leave even though I told him to."
I'm betting you're face-planted and handcuffed no matter what state you're in.

And the root of the issue is that a property owner clearly does not want you armed on his property and has informed you via a plainly worded sign on his front door.
To take a "catch me and I'll comply" attitude is childish, arrogant and dangerous.

 

[jlrhiner]

I'm going to sound rude here, but no one but me decides if I carry. Concealed is concealed. If your business posts "No Guns" signs, odds are you don't get my business. But I damn sure am not returning my gun to a vehicle unattended to honor someone's property rights. Sorry, if you don't like it, don't invite me in. This includes Indian reservations, gun shows or anywhere else. My right to personal protection trumps your property rights.

That's the way I see it.

 

[1 old 0311]

You really think that's how it would go down?

Make that a Bank Manager call to 911. "There's an armed man in my bank and he refuses to leave even though I told him to."
I'm betting you're face-planted and handcuffed no matter what state you're in.

And the root of the issue is that a property owner clearly does not want you armed on his property and has informed you via a plainly worded sign on his front door.
To take a "catch me and I'll comply" attitude is childish, arrogant and dangerous.

I stand HUMBLY corrected. Like a fool I actually listened to the advice of my BANK MANAGER, where I should have listened to "some guy on the internet who doesn't even live here" don't know what came over me.

 

[blujax01]

Hello Pot? This is the Kettle Calling ...

...My right to personal protection trumps your property rights.

That's the way I see it.

WOW!! You sound just like the Anti's - "My rights trump your 2nd Amendment Rights."

You two go ahead and act the Fool. Mess it up for the rest of us that believe this is a nation of laws and act accordingly. And when they are looking for reasons why we cannot be trusted with our Rights, you will be in the spotlight.

Way to go. You'll show me, huh?

Out.

 

[1 old 0311]

WOW!! You sound just like the Anti's - "My rights trump your 2nd Amendment Rights."

You two go ahead and act the Fool. Mess it up for the rest of us that believe this is a nation of laws and act accordingly. And when they are looking for reasons why we cannot be trusted with our Rights, you will be in the spotlight.

Way to go. You'll show me, huh?

Out.

"MESS IT UP FOR THE REST OF US?" Feel free to correct me, if I am indeed in error, but it looks like you don't even belong to the NRA.

 

[hiram2005]

You really think that's how it would go down?

Make that a Bank Manager call to 911. "There's an armed man in my bank and he refuses to leave even though I told him to."
I'm betting you're face-planted and handcuffed no matter what state you're in.

And the root of the issue is that a property owner clearly does not want you armed on his property and has informed you via a plainly worded sign on his front door.
To take a "catch me and I'll comply" attitude is childish, arrogant and dangerous.

Eh, just stay in Ohio, don't come to Indiana, where we have common sense laws. You funny!

And there is no "catch me and I'll comply" attitude. Concealed is concealed. I'm not one of the attention whores that OC.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Some of you are missing the point. The original discussion was about carrying a weapon on Tribal lands, not into some mom and pop store in anytown USA. The fact of the matter is the Indian Tribes do not need to post signs if carrying is against their law. It is your responsibility to know their laws before you enter their land/property...ignorance will get you no sympathy. When you cross the boundary into Tribal lands you in effect are leaving the USA, just as if you entered into Mexico or any other foreign country.

 

[jlrhiner]

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. But life is real. I've carried concealed since I got out of the Navy (in 1979). Mostly illegally if you ignore that whole 2nd Amendment thing. Now I'm old and feeble, no longer capable of strangling someone with my bare hands. I should compromise my personal safety and the safety of my family because someone chose a feel good statement and posted their business. Maybe they are anti gun. Maybe their insurance co. required it. I really don't care. They didn't provide armed guards, or take any steps to provide for my security. They don't pay my bills or sleep with me. Their opinion really dosen't matter to me. If they discover the fact that I'm carrying, they can ask me to leave, and I will.

As far as the tribal lands issue, I don't go in their casinos either.

 

[jlrhiner]

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. But life is real. I've carried concealed since I got out of the Navy (in 1979). Mostly illegally if you ignore that whole 2nd Amendment thing. Now I'm old and feeble, no longer capable of strangling someone with my bare hands. I should compromise my personal safety and the safety of my family because someone chose a feel good statement and posted their business. Maybe they are anti gun. Maybe their insurance co. required it. I really don't care. They didn't provide armed guards, or take any steps to provide for my security. They don't pay my bills or sleep with me. Their opinion really dosen't matter to me. If they discover the fact that I'm carrying, they can ask me to leave, and I will.

As far as the tribal lands issue, I don't go in their casinos either.