CFE Pistol powder postion report

[Magload]

Here are my findings today at the indoor range.
All test was run with 10 loads across a ProChrono Digital at 8 feet from the muzzle and using ProChrono's IR light bars.

Load was 4.6gr CFE Pistol pushing a 158gr SWC coated by Blue Bullet. Brass was new Star-Line .38 Special, Primers was WSP. A Ruger GP-100 .38 Special/.357 Mag.

First test the gun was pointed straight up then rested. The same was done for each shot.
High Velocity: 863
Low Velocity: 810
Average Velocity: 834
Extreme spread: 53
Standard Deviation: 15

Second test gun was pointed straight down before each shot. Very carefully placing it on the rest.
High Velocity: 821
Low Velocity: 700
Average Velocity: 772
Extreme spread: 121
Standard Deviation: 41

IMHO CFE Pistol is position sensitive. The group opened up a bunch from 2 1/2" to 4"
Don

 

[Culina]

Good to know and thanks for taking the time to do the testing. I bought a couple pounds but I was planning on using it in 40 S&W and maybe some 45ACP loads. I hope there isn't enough empty space in those to cause any powder position issues.

 

[Magload]

Kurac your welcome I enjoy testing. As for the 40 S&W and 45 ACP I doubt there is I have gotten real good accuracy with my 45 ACP with 200gr Berry's plated SWC. Don

 

[noylj]

Small amounts of slow powders tend to do that.
However, how many folks point their guns down and carefully raise them?
Should have had another string where you just shot them without paying any attention (or have someone else shoot them).

 

[Nemo288]

Want to get REALLY obsessive use a filler like Pufflon.
This will double your reloading time and is messy.
Don't ask
Some shotgun buffers will drop thru a powder measure and are easier to use.
You will need to back off at least a half grain as this also raises pressure some.
The trick is to compress the filler some to hold everything together.
Do NOT use a card or cork wad.
I have successfully used old tumbling corn cob and walnut media as well.
Burnt walnut shell leaves a distinctive smell.

===
Nemo

 

[joe sacco]

Good work. Thank you.

Best, Joe

 

[Magload]

Small amounts of slow powders tend to do that.
However, how many folks point their guns down and carefully raise them?
Should have had another string where you just shot them without paying any attention (or have someone else shoot them).

I had already ran that data earlier and was very happy with the results. This load is my favorite target load for the 38 Special at this time, alway looking for better. I just conclude that shooting down hill is not as good as up hill but still both will get the job done. Don

 

[Nevada Ed]

One reason I like loads that fill the case 76% or more.

The first shot out of a holster could be different but......
after the first shot if left level, as in normal shooting conditions
things usually work themselves out.

Thanks for the test data, that was a surprise to me.......
quite a difference in fps.

 

[Magload]

I knew about the filler available but these loads shoot just fine on the target range and my reloading is slow enough the way it is. Maybe if powders ever come more available I will find a better one to fill the case better. The purpose of the test was just to check how CFE Pistol would react, and share the data. Don

 

[Nemo288]

I'll join the others in thanking you for the data.
As they say Mo Bettah!
The case filling thing is why I am experimenting with N105 in the 44 special even though there is no loading data from VV.
Just a visual approximation looks like I am getting 75-90% fill.
It's a fine tubular powder that takes up more space than the flakes or balls.
I have actually given up on the filler thing. Way more trouble than it's worth.
I'll leave that for the Nitro Express folks.

===
Nemo

 

[Alk8944]

Magload,

Not to diminish the information, I have run the same comparison numerous times. In the longer, or high aspect ratio, calibers all powders will show some degree of position sensitivity, so there is no surprise here. There are four things that will reduce this tendency. Fillers (As noted, not worth the trouble), Lower density (bulkier) powders, raising the muzzle for each shot (most do this to some degree without realizing it), use more primer such as Small Rifle when Small Pistol may be recommended or specified. All these will reduce ignition variations.


And, NO, Small Rifle primers in revolver/pistol cartridges will not cause mis-fires as long as the firearm is in good mechanical shape. The majority of mis-fires are the direct result of attempts to reduce trigger pull to excessive amounts! If your gun will not dependably fire any brand or type of primer that will fit the primer pocket then the gun is in need of repair. Usually very simple, just reinstall the factory springs and it will be cured!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Thanks for sharing your findings. I started using 6.5gr/CFE with Xtreme's plated 158gr TNFP in 357 cases & was wondering how it compares to their data.

What length barrel is you GP-100?

.

 

[Yorkie Man]

I tried the Puff Lon in some .45 Colt loads, what a mess after you fire them. I have had good success using it in rifle loads with cast bullets but the pistol rounds don't have enough pressure to push all of it out of the muzzle so it ends up gumming up the cylinder.

 

[Magload]

Thanks for sharing your findings. I started using 6.5gr/CFE with Xtreme's plated 158gr TNFP in 357 cases & was wondering how it compares to their data.

What length barrel is you GP-100?

.

4.1" I was wanting a 6" barrel but this gun was so sweet I couldn't pass it up. I just laid there in the show case begging me to take it home.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Nothing wrong with that 4"...........

A 6" or longer is better for hunting or past 50 yard shots......
just depends on what a person likes.

 

[Magload]

Run more test on my first 357 mag load. tested it in steps of .3grs up to .1 from max. The 115gr FP X-Treme plated are better then the 158s was but I am going to call these Dragon Loads. As in Puff the Magic Dragon. Even at .1 below Max it ma only getting a high of 1126 and a avg of 1024. Two of the five shots didn't make Minor. Not good. I am suspecting the CFE Pistol and am going to run test loads Monday using magnum primers. These Dragon loads were grouping real tight and were nice to shoot but this is a 357 Mag it is supposed to be awsum. Don

 

[alwslate]

I have done this simple test for position sensitivity many times and
just about all powders are position sensitive to some extent. This is
not seen with full case loads of course like a full power 357 load or 44
mag load with 2400 or 296 with the powder up to the base of the
bullet. I have found one powder that is actually reverse position
sensitive, W452AA, a very fine grain shotshell and handgun powder.
It was discontinued back in mid 80s and replaced with WST. I still
have some and really like it for standard pressure cast bullet 38 spl
loads. It will actually show slightly higher velocity if the gun is tilted
down before firing rather than up. I attribute this to the very fine
grains along with high static cling causing more surface area to be
exposed to primer flame when the powder is positioned forward. One
day I mentioned this on the phone to a Hodgdon rep because they
used to market 452 as Trap 100. He basically flat out called me a
liar and said that violated all known laws of physics. When I
suggested he try it for himself he just got mad so I let it drop.

 

[Nemo288]

"Don't confuse me with the facts!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Landgrebe

====
Nemo

 

[BLUEDOT37]

CFE-P is pretty dense & volume-wise it doesn't take up much space in a .357 case. And being slower I'm just wondering if it might perform better in small volume cases, like advertised on it's label (9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP), which I haven't tried it in yet?

.

 

[Magload]

I am loading it in all 3 of those calibers and yes it works very well in them. I am only using it in 38 Special and 357 Mag because it was all I could get. Hodgdon has data for it in those two so I am loading it till something better comes along. There is a local gun show at the end of the month and I want to get a pound or two of something that will fill the case better just not sure what to get yet. Will H110 fill the case above 50%?