Funny, I can't remember ever hearing a gunfight survivor say "my gun had way too much power for the gunfight I was in" or "the gun I was carrying on THAT day was way too big for me to carry" A smarter man than me once said carry the BIGGEST gun you can shoot well and carry, on THAT day you will be glad you did.
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- Thread starter gerhard1
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keith44spl
Member
^^^^^
That's my thoughts exactly
Use Enough Gun.
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That's my thoughts exactly
Use Enough Gun.
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I'm fixing to start a new thread with a simple question - how do you CONCEAL a large handgun? Anyone can carry an N frame, even an L frame, or a "service sized" pistol, but concealment is paramount. You're unlikely to win or lose a gunfight because you carried a bigger gun than the other guy if you're skilled and you weren't caught off guard (condition white).
I own any number of large frame pistols and revolvers and can shoot all of them but at no time would I consider attempting to conceal carry one. J frames, snubby K frames, compact 9mms and .45s. and even some mouse guns are the stock in trade for the average citizen who carries a gun concealed. I want to know how you aficionados of N frames and service sized pistols go about your day carrying one of those hand cannons concealed.
I love a big caliber gun and do carry them in a shoulder rig in cold weather.
Most of the time I carry a Ruger LCP 380 or an S&W 49 in my pocket or appendix carry a Glock 19 or 23 with a shirt over it.
Been carrying longer than most of you have been alive so don't try to school me on appendix carry.
Most of the time I carry a Ruger LCP 380 or an S&W 49 in my pocket or appendix carry a Glock 19 or 23 with a shirt over it.
Been carrying longer than most of you have been alive so don't try to school me on appendix carry.
keith44spl
Member
I personally use a holster and gunbelt that rides fairly high and tight.
Any reasonable cover garment will conceal nicely.
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A lot of folks have addressed the holster/belt topic. But for me, the question would be around the trigger on the gun. I'm not familiar with the 610, but from the photo, it looks like the S&W wide target trigger. If that's the case, that trigger can be difficult to use well when firing double action. A narrower, slightly rounded trigger, tends to work best for DA shooting.
Every duty gun I carried had the Target Hammer and Target Trigger set up on them, never had a problem with double action shooting in practice or in practical use.
Many agencies back before the Glocks took over in the 90s, would order their S&Ws with TH and TT. Never heard of a problem.
Sounds like some internet rumor. You use what works best for you.
Many agencies back before the Glocks took over in the 90s, would order their S&Ws with TH and TT. Never heard of a problem.
Sounds like some internet rumor. You use what works best for you.
The trigger on my 610 is radiused and smooth about 3/8" wide. It is designed for DA shooting which 95+% of the time is how I shoot.
31FordA
Member
Earlier in my career I carried a 4" model 28-2 concealed, and I still carry a 5" Government Model when I think it might be useful. I don't find those guns unpleasant to carry, but I have a good belt and quality holsters. I also wear a sport coat for work, which makes concealment fairly easy.
EDC
Bought this Milt Sparks Summer Special (N frame/4") and wore it for a 5 day trip to the NM mountains to include the 4 hour drive up an back. My plan was to carry it in the back country and figured why would I bring another gun just to carry on the road and in town. To my surprise it was not uncomfortable at all. Covered by an untucked flannel shirt or a fleece vest and no one was the wiser. Did a class with this S&W model 58 recently and hammers with a DA revolver is a skill but with the right instruction is very doable.
Bought this Milt Sparks Summer Special (N frame/4") and wore it for a 5 day trip to the NM mountains to include the 4 hour drive up an back. My plan was to carry it in the back country and figured why would I bring another gun just to carry on the road and in town. To my surprise it was not uncomfortable at all. Covered by an untucked flannel shirt or a fleece vest and no one was the wiser. Did a class with this S&W model 58 recently and hammers with a DA revolver is a skill but with the right instruction is very doable.
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StrawHat
Member
I carry 4", N frame revolvers chambered for the 45 ACP cartridge. Why? Because it is the largest bore size for the frame. None of my carry pieces have a full lug. (Now that I think about it, I do not own a revolver with a full lug anymore.)
My lightest piece is a 4" S&W Model 1917, 40 ounces, loaded with 230 grain bullets.
The heaviest is my 4" S&W Model 25-2, 44 ounces loaded, same ammunition.
My edc, a S&W Model 22-4 is 43 ounces loaded with the same ammunition.
Are there lighter revolvers? Sure! Do they fit my needs? No.
Kevin
David Sinko
Member
For years I carried a 4" Redhawk .45 Colt in an El Paso Saddlery Street Combat. I carried this year round including the summer heat under a T shirt. Then I carried the 4" 625 .45 ACP which was the same gun I used for the various matches. I used the same holster. Now that I do less match shooting the 625 has a 2" barrel installed and I use a holster that I designed and made myself. The 2" 625 is my LEOSA gun that I occasionally carry into NJ and NY. It's easier to conceal than a Glock 17 and I have not met the qualification course that I can not pass when using it. The holster is key when carrying a large frame revolver and a short barrel makes things much easier too.
That was probably the same mindset of those FBI agents that lost their lives in the Miami Shootout. I believe Edmundo Mireles spent the rest of his career carrying a Sig P220 .45ACP. If we don't learn from past mistakes we are bound to the same outcome. I spent the better part of 37 years going about heeled with a "full size" "service sized" handgun, all over the country, Chicago, DC, NYC, California and I have never been made, as for as I know. Not saying that I have not had moments of weakness (just kidding) where I slipped a J Frame in my pocket and went out the door. Every time I do though I go through a threat assessment and make that decision a serious one. To tell the truth, about 50% of the time I think about carrying a sub-compact gun I change my mind because I realize I was making that call based on my laziness. Carry the biggest gun that you can shoot well and carry, each decision is a personal one. God Bless the USA!
No wonder LE has gone to lighter and more compact weapons when you consider the weight of everything carried on a uniformed officers belt today. Back when N frames were commonly carried the only belt accessories were either 6 or12 spare rounds and one pair of handcuffs. No argument that you would be better armed with a N frame 357 revolver or 45 auto pistol if it was practical. Add chronic back pain to the list of disabilities officers suffer from.
Also allowing for a more inclusive picture of the population height/weight requirements for officers are no longer as strict as they used to be. This has accounted for a significant number of females added to the ranks of LE. Very large heavy weapons made it difficult for many women and some men of smaller/lighter stature to qualify. Todays lighter more compact weapons were a step in the right direction.
A friend of mine is an officer in a fairly small police department (about 40 sworn officers). When they replaced their service pistol the officer in charge was one of the local gun nuts who had firm ideas about what worked best for him. They ended up with full size Sig P226 pistols in .357 Sig that my friend just could not shoot as well as it didn't fit his hand.
The military had a similar history with the M9, which has a large grip that just didn't fit the hands of many of the people it was issued to. The US military has partially addressed this with the Sig P320/M17 and M18, but that's depended on being able to fit a set of small grips to the grip frame, making it a much more individualized weapon.
We also carried a baton and a heavy Motorola radio back in my day (mid to late 1980s). But I agree, the current "bat belt" approach with cuffs, mace, taser, service pistol, two spare mags, plus a radio and a collapsible baton does up the potential for chronic back pain carrying it all around as well as back injury when you fall on it.
max503
Member
To be fair a few LE agencies early on did make accommodations for male/female officers who had difficulty with mastering large/heavy handguns, NYC comes to mind. An item left off the bat belts is a flashlight, a necessity when working the 2nd 3rd shift. Thanks to the newer compact high power lights officers don't have to lug around a heavy 4 D cell Mag or Kell Lite. The early portable radios were at least as big as a brick and weighed just as much, todays portables are much more manageable in size and weight. Progress but still one step forward and two steps back.
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