Church Security Calibers

[Whitwabit]

Something I think that is as important as the weapon and caliber to carry which should be what your most accurate with .. is the placement of the security staff .. next to any entrance and several in the middle of the seating to be able to shoot outwardly also an AR in a elevated position with red dot might also be a viable option ..

also a written statement telling the congregation what they should do if a shooting incident does happen .. and what exit they should use if sitting in certain locations within the room .. you don't want people running into a security member causing his shot to be less then accurate and the results being an innocent person being shot ..

 

[TTSH]

Not a lot of gun play where we attend church.

As a long-lapsed Catholic who is going straight to Hell for certain, it was a rare sight indeed to see me attending a large Catholic wedding this past week officiated by no less that 3 priests. The church was huge and very crowded and the wedding was wonderful, but I couldn't help but think how easy it would be for one or more terrorists to attack the place and kill every last person inside. One would hope & pray there was some sort of security on duty but it sure didn't look like there was.

It looked like an ideal "soft" target for terrorism... a very scary thought. In this day and age, God bless you people who are providing security for your respective places of worship.

 

[caleb4387]

I'd be more concerned about missing altogetherthan over penetration. if it does over penetrate it won't have much energy left once it goes out the bad guy

 

[caleb4387]

I would say full-size m@p 9 with 147 grain HST and an AR 15 handy

 

[apollo99]

My first bullet of choice would be 38 special 158 grain SWC. The only problem is the lack of high capacity in revolvers. My choice of weapons, a Glock, so intermingling the two, I would be looking at a Glock 19, 9mm with 147 grain jacketed hollow points. I am not a Glock groupie, and I don't regularly shoot 9mm. I do feel that if I needed to be armed in a security situation, the G19 , 9mm would fit the bill. The Glock is simple and proven, the 9mm has come a long was in the last few years.

 

[Cariboo Canuck]

Just out of curiosity, why is the concern regarding ammo for use in a church any different than in any other public venue?

The building is going to be filled with screaming, panicked people, elderly, infirm, young, etc., all of them intent on getting out of range of a shooter.
You could say the same of a school, theatre, mall or any other public venue.

Wanna-be mass shooters tend to target places known as "gun free zones" as they are less likely to be confronted by someone who can shoot back.
Signs at the entrance of the sanctuary indicating that members of the congregation are trained and armed might work as a deterrent, making it less likely that a shooter would enter.

Posting armed security people in the parking lot area would also lessen the chances of an armed intruder entering the building.

 

[Jupiter01]

WHATEVER you may carry, Think and rehearse several likely scenarios through in advance, In the likely location, if possible, Next: practice, practice, practice with your carry gun/ammo.

Then offer frequent and sincere prayers that it will never come to the ultimate test, but if it does, that your skills will be equal to the task!

 

[hdwhit]

jimmyj wrote:
Hi:
I am a new member of a church security unit.
Several members are retired LEO.
The main purpose is security in the main sanctuary. The building is one story.
The sanctuary is approx. 75 feet from main door to pulpit and approx. 75 feet wide.
The sanctuary is normally full on Sunday mornings.

To my mind, over penetration is a main concern in the event that an active shooter has to be dealt with.

A large slow moving handgun bullet is what I am thinking ?

I led the group that developed the security team procedures adopted by a number of large churches in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area starting in the late-1990's.

There's not enough room in one of these posts to go over three years worth of work and training, but suffice it to say that among the situations the security team was expected to deal with, an active shooter was considered the least likely. Trespassing, Property Crime, Simple Assault and Ensuring that no adult was left alone with a child were the biggest concerns and they were predomoinately what was trained for.

With respect to an Active Shooter situation, following a detailed analysis of the likely threats as well as the capabilities of the security team members that were potentially armed (all were required to be currently serving LEOs and thus up to date on their training) we concluded it would be irresponsible to position armed guards within a crowded sancturary where the backdrop to any shot was another member of the congregation.

Instead, we opted for a system that created three security perimeters; one outside the building using unarmed observers, a second around the children's area and another within the building but outside of the sanctuary. This third perimeter did allow for the guards to be armed (provided the church's leadership agreed - although few did).

I would recommend your church's leadership check with their liability insurance company about whether or not posting armed guards within the sanctuary is permitted under the terms of the policy. I would also suggest that any armed security team members carry their own general liability insurance policy to help protect them in the event they injure or kill someone.

 

[amazingflapjack]

High quality...

I didn't know the words "Taurus" and "high quality" could be used in the same sentence.

Sounds like contempt prior to investigation. Quality is as quality does-whatever the brand...

 

[Rustyt1953]

I didn't know the words "Taurus" and "high quality" could be used in the same sentence.

Anyone have any Unguentine? I think I just got scorched.

 

[Cariboo Canuck]

I led the group that developed the security team procedures adopted by a number of large churches in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area starting in the late-1990's.

Instead, we opted for a system that created three security perimeters; one outside the building using unarmed observers, a second around the children's area and another within the building but outside of the sanctuary. This third perimeter did allow for the guards to be armed (provided the church's leadership agreed - although few did).QUOTE]

Good reasoning, particularly with regard to the "three security perimeters".

It's a little off topic, but related in an odd way ..... At the funeral of an RCMP Auxiliary member at our church, the entire watch showed up.

The Honour Guard in scarlets who carried the casket out were not armed, not even wearing holsters. The others were, including the plains clothes types who were CCW.
I was one of the few who noticed this and after the service, I spoke to the Watch Commander re: the wearing of sidearms in a church sanctuary by police.

He took umbrage to my remarks and said he'd like to discuss it with me in an "interview" at the Detachment after the internment. This never happened, but I wrote a letter to the NCO/IC cc'd the RCMP Complaints Commissioner and never got the courtesy of a reply.

In my letter, I asked what the reaction would have been had the RCMP worn sidearms into a Synagogue, Sikh or Buddhist temple. I suggested that it might have been better to have put their guns into the trunk of one vehicle, posted a sentry with radio (which they all carry) or remained in the ante room during the service.

I realize that it's a different situation in the US, but your post indicates that some churches or denominations might object to uninvited armed police in their church sanctuary.

 

[Rivoak]

Can't help it, keep thinking of this.

Dusty, are you recommending long sticks with metal thingies on the top?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[serger]

I think you ought to carry the same thing you did when you were still a LEO. I seem to remember you winning a lot of competition with that.

 

[KSDeputy]

I know it is required now, but it saddens me that we must have armed people to protect our churches. I carry a .45, and that is what I recommend.

 

[Cariboo Canuck]

The Pope is protected by armed guards. You can google the Armory of the Swiss Guard where you will see all kinds of arms, old and current.

 

[Jupiter01]

Believing that most of us are not retired or present LEO, or trained much in the latest self-defense tactics, and as much as we might love to, maybe not having the $$$ to attend the various "academies"; or, age having taken its toll, we are not as physically capable as we were; I'd say use what you can shoot the best, whether is be .22 LR, (Poodle shooter?).38 Special wadcutter, or .44 magnum "Do you feel lucky, punk?"

To paraphrase Foghorn Leghorn;
"PRACTICE with that round, I say Practice, boy!"

Don't dick around "trying" different stuff each week, and visualize yourself realistically in a likely scenario...NOT you standing there, yelling; "Take that, you cowardly criminal persons!",pumping 11 center-mass rounds from your J frame; (but, we can all dream, right?) but what you may do with extremely wet jockey shorts, possibly wounded, and/or with hysterical companion(s) and bystanders to deal with. Where's the exit? FEETS, save the body!

 

[Jupiter01]

The Pope is protected by armed guards. You can google the Armory of the Swiss Guard where you will see all kinds of arms, old and current.

Something I learned in Switzerland; Don't NEVER mess with the Swiss Guards!

 

[rwsmith]

Hey, don't they.......

Something I learned in Switzerland; Don't NEVER mess with the Swiss Guards!

Hey, don't they fend off attacks on the Vatican with those Halberds they march around with?

 

[rwsmith]

I think it very important........

How can anybody say that overpenetration in a crowded church is no big deal? If you can get a shot it's an almost certainty that other will be behind the perps.

 

[M E Morrison]

How can anybody say that overpenetration in a crowded church is no big deal? If you can get a shot it's an almost certainty that other will be behind the perps.

Over penetration in any crowded place is a big deal but it's a bigger deal when those people are your friends - or family.