Classified antics that cost the seller a sale (at least from me)!

[straightshooter1]

I love this forum and think it is even better now, BUT...

In the Classifieds, some things drive me crazy (or crazier).

For example, FTFs "only" on a simple sale. I can understand the reason for a FTF on a trade, but on a sale-why?

If one is shipping to an FFL, whether as an individual or through one's own FFL, the receiving FFL has the duty to make sure the buyer is doing so legally. And, the seller already has the money. Makes no sense to me, unless the seller figures if someone takes the trouble to come all the way to him for a FTF, he'll probably buy the gun even if there's some "small" flaw which hasn't been revealed.

But what really puts me over the edge is an "FTF in Florida only," with no indication of WHERE in Florida the seller is located.

Florida is a big, long state-not real wide except in the panhandle, but real long.

So, some Florida poster inquires, "Where in Florida?" and, rather than a reply so everyone can see, the seller posts an "Email sent."

Does the seller think no one else in the state might have an interest? Or, does he think revealing his home town or area (i.e. Tampabay or Central Florida) might expose him to some criminal's attention or impose some liability on him?

Assuming I was a criminal or some LEO with arrest on my mind (though why?), I could simply inquire on the forum or send an email and get the info.

Next is the ad for a "Pre-war, S&W 500 mag, original magnas, target grips. $500.00"

Some poster then inquires on the forum, "I don't think the magnas are right for the Pre-war. I think they all had little dots instead of diamonds. Are you sure these are original?"

And, of course, the seller next posts "Email sent," as if anyone else considering the really rare Pre-war 500 wouldn't be interested in the answer.

A lesser problem for me, but one which makes me ignore the gun (unless it was one I couldn't live without-and I haven't found one yet) is the "Email me for photos."

If the seller has a camera and has photos, why doesn't he post them? Even I, the most computer challenged member of this Forum, can post photos using Photobucket and, when I have had a problem, others have quickly stepped in to help.

So, in the "FTF only" posts, I figure the seller is a squirrel, some kind of cheat or a bit too paranoid for me to worry about.

In the "FTF in Florida only" category, when the seller fails to say where he is located, I figure, he's either paranoid or trying to pull something, and also forget about the gun.

And, for me, no photos posted means no sale, at least to me.

I have bought quite a few guns lately over the 'net, but I have passed on many, many more.

I am sure many of these posters I have categorized have no dark purpose for their actions, but, I don't want to roll the dice when it comes to several hundred dollars.

After all, I'm just a poor retired person, living on a fixed income.

Bob

 

[straightshooter1]

I love this forum and think it is even better now, BUT...

In the Classifieds, some things drive me crazy (or crazier).

For example, FTFs "only" on a simple sale. I can understand the reason for a FTF on a trade, but on a sale-why?

If one is shipping to an FFL, whether as an individual or through one's own FFL, the receiving FFL has the duty to make sure the buyer is doing so legally. And, the seller already has the money. Makes no sense to me, unless the seller figures if someone takes the trouble to come all the way to him for a FTF, he'll probably buy the gun even if there's some "small" flaw which hasn't been revealed.

But what really puts me over the edge is an "FTF in Florida only," with no indication of WHERE in Florida the seller is located.

Florida is a big, long state-not real wide except in the panhandle, but real long.

So, some Florida poster inquires, "Where in Florida?" and, rather than a reply so everyone can see, the seller posts an "Email sent."

Does the seller think no one else in the state might have an interest? Or, does he think revealing his home town or area (i.e. Tampabay or Central Florida) might expose him to some criminal's attention or impose some liability on him?

Assuming I was a criminal or some LEO with arrest on my mind (though why?), I could simply inquire on the forum or send an email and get the info.

Next is the ad for a "Pre-war, S&W 500 mag, original magnas, target grips. $500.00"

Some poster then inquires on the forum, "I don't think the magnas are right for the Pre-war. I think they all had little dots instead of diamonds. Are you sure these are original?"

And, of course, the seller next posts "Email sent," as if anyone else considering the really rare Pre-war 500 wouldn't be interested in the answer.

A lesser problem for me, but one which makes me ignore the gun (unless it was one I couldn't live without-and I haven't found one yet) is the "Email me for photos."

If the seller has a camera and has photos, why doesn't he post them? Even I, the most computer challenged member of this Forum, can post photos using Photobucket and, when I have had a problem, others have quickly stepped in to help.

So, in the "FTF only" posts, I figure the seller is a squirrel, some kind of cheat or a bit too paranoid for me to worry about.

In the "FTF in Florida only" category, when the seller fails to say where he is located, I figure, he's either paranoid or trying to pull something, and also forget about the gun.

And, for me, no photos posted means no sale, at least to me.

I have bought quite a few guns lately over the 'net, but I have passed on many, many more.

I am sure many of these posters I have categorized have no dark purpose for their actions, but, I don't want to roll the dice when it comes to several hundred dollars.

After all, I'm just a poor retired person, living on a fixed income.

Bob

 

[greyhawk178]

Amen to all the above with one addition....When the firearm for sale is within the first 5~10 posts on the forum.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I, for one prefer an item be shipped whether i am selling or buying. I have no idea who is coming out to meet me. If I know the person, that is different. If someone ships a hot gun, it's their butt that is in a sling.

I also find it increases my desire to buy a particular gun if the pics are in the post.

WG840

 

[GatorFarmer]

There's several reasons to prefer in state FTF sales only. For non FFLs it saves the expense of both shipping and the fees associated with bringing the gun to the FFL to put on his books - yes, one can ship direct, but it often works out better to have an FFL do it. Some people prefer not to pay these fees, esp when it might result in having them doubled if someone changes their mind and sends the gun back.

The transfer FFL I use is an hour away in each direction. That's a hassle, the more so since there isn't that much in the way of interesting things to look at when driving through farmland. Combined with having the postal service damage two firearms, I now only buy and sell in state unless I was bidding on an auction.

 

[straightshooter1]

OK, GF, the distance might make sense. But, don't you have to make the same or a similar drive to buy or sell FTF?

And, as to the fees, it's the buyer who is paying them, right?

Even if the gun is "$400 shipped to your FFL", the seller has calculated in the price the cost he'll incur in shipping.

And, I don't get the last sentence where you "only buy and sell instate unless bidding on an auction." I don't see the difference in traveling to your FFL to pick up a gun you got in an auction on GB and one you bought on our Classifieds.

It might be a valid reason to FTF in order to save on taxes and the background check, though.

Bob

 

[m657]

My concern is those tense periods waiting to find whether the seller actually DOES ship what you've paid for....

What's the best (ie Most Secure) way to transfer funds to an unknown.

Shipping to out of state FFLs that I've checked out is no issue; and most sellers I've dealt with don't mind if I send the funds directly to the FFL. A few have wanted $$ directly to them.

Makes me nervous.

Tips?

 

[straightshooter1]

Now 657, that is a valid point for a FTF, IMO. I don't want to send my money to some dirtbag and never get the gun.

What I do is look at the length of time they have been here, the number of posts AND, perhaps more importantly, the CONTENT of their posts.

We have all seen new posters who post on a bunch of threads and/or resurrect old threads apparently to up their post count. I am suspicious of that when, suddenly, I see a gun for sale or multiples.

I think we can't research a poster beyond the end of last year now, but I still look at all their posts before deciding whether to send my $.

Feedback on our new Feedback Forum is important, too.

I admit I am a little suspicious (okay, paranoid) but that comes from many years of seeing some incredible scams that worked (for a while)

I still remember an old man telling me exactly how to break into a drug store without getting caught. I might have paid more attention, except he was telling me this after I had arrested him for breaking into a drug store. Or, the really attractive young lady who taught me how I could kite checks and never get caught. Of course she was in cuffs at the time, too.

Bob

 

[NFrameFred]

Originally posted by Klas:
What's FTF?

Face To Face

 

[oldRoger]

I have good relations with a FFL for transfers. However, the cost becomes a consideration when buying. It has to cost any none FFL holder something like a total of $80 to either go through his FFL and ship to mine, or ship directly to mine + the $25 I pay.
In addition to money is time, very minimum one week, more likely two, while money is transferred, gun is shipped, and in my possession. Further, I might (unlikely) have to return it as "not as described".
Let's say for example "straightshooter1" had a 4576 he wanted to sell and listed it in the classifieds. He and I could come to terms, agree on the payment type, and I could have the gun and he the money today.
Our respective travel would be something like 45 miles each way, he could examine the payment and I the pistol. Additionally we would both have a chance to meet a fellow S&W fan.

 

[zoom6zoom]

After dealing with shipping company employees who don't understand their own rules, I can sympathize with folks who don't want to be bothered having to ship something!

 

[animalmother]

You make a lot of good, valid points. I don' mind FTF transactions as it cuts out what is now almost always two FFLs. Plus you save on shipping.

 

[sar4937]

On a face to face sale, how can you be sure the gun is not stolen or used in a crime. I had this same rant 6 months ago, it seems like there are a lot more guns on this forum being sold FTF only. I understand wanting to have an untraceable gun, but how do you know what you're buying is not on a sheet somewhere. I prefer, and will pay for the FFL to be involved because there is a ID and paperwork required. 3 years ago, I bought a 1006 off this forum. The guy lived in my state, so I thought it's a hundred mile drive I'll go and pick it up. Well the guy would only meet me in a city park, and it had kids playing soccer. So I sit and wait, it's illegal to have a firearm in a city park. The guy showed up about twenty minutes late with a friend. No CCW in those days. So when I got the gun home and removed the grips the gun was full of dried blood. And while it's a gun without federal paperwork, I'm scared to know it's history.

 

[straightshooter1]

OK, the "no paperwork" gun.

I am not sure there is any such thing unless the original owner or his descendants are selling a gun purchased prior to GCA '68.

IF the feds want to find a gun, it is pretty easy. They call it a forward trace and, the last one I did, they promised results within 24 hours and they delivered. For guns not used in a crime, IIRC, they promise results within 72 hours.

My first experience was about 10AM when the FBI knocked on my door and asked me about a Model 39 Smith I used to own. Seems a patient had broken out of a mental facility in Michigan or Minnesota and then broken back in and murdered a psychiatrist with my former gun. ATF had simply started at Smith, then to the distributor then to the dealer who had sold it to an individual. That person told them he'd sold it to me. I sold it to another cop who sold it to someone else.

Turned out what they wanted was fired casings from the gun for comparison (don't know why). The cop I sold the gun to took the agents to the woods and recovered some fired casings for them.

But the point is, the ATF just goes from point of manufacture to the last person who had the gun. Yeah, I know, the boat tipped over in the lake, the gun was stolen from my truck, there was this fire, etc.

Of course, in those events, especially the theft and fire, there'd be that contemporaneous police/fire report, right? OOOOPS!

Bob

 

[sar4937]

What if the gun had been sold FTF 2 or 3 times since the original purchaser owned it? What if the gun was stolen by the seller at the FTF? Maybe your state is different, but in mine you can simply swap cash for the gun.

 

[straightshooter1]

Not sure if the question from sar4937 was for me because of the forward trace, but IME, most sellers know who they sold a gun to. I am sure there are exceptions, but I can't recall a forward trace I was involved in that didn't have an answer as to where the gun was. Sometimes it was stolen, but there was always a police report.

I would never buy or sell a gun to an individual without getting a receipt and KNOWING (i.e. looking at the D/L or CWP) who the person was.

Bob

 

[m1gunner]

I understand your frustration, but just look at how many more guns you have the chance to buy now as compared to pre-internet days.

As to the FTF only sales, it may be because the seller had a very bad experience trying to ship a gun before.

Were I to sell and ship a firearm, it would cost me an entire day during the week. This includes a minimum of 10 back and forth emails to the buyer, converting the payment to cash, and packing the item up. Then I would have to chase down my FFL, pay him and make sure it is logged into his book. Verifying the item is being shipped to the proper FFL, and notifying the seller the item is on the way.

Then I would not consider it a done deal till the buyer received the item and verified he was satisfied that it was as advertised.

A FTF deal is over and done with in less than half a day, the FFL/FFL deal can go 2 to 3 weeks, even more.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
OK, GF, the distance might make sense. But, don't you have to make the same or a similar drive to buy or sell FTF?

And, as to the fees, it's the buyer who is paying them, right?

Even if the gun is "$400 shipped to your FFL", the seller has calculated in the price the cost he'll incur in shipping.

And, I don't get the last sentence where you "only buy and sell instate unless bidding on an auction." I don't see the difference in traveling to your FFL to pick up a gun you got in an auction on GB and one you bought on our Classifieds.

It might be a valid reason to FTF in order to save on taxes and the background check, though.

Bob

No, lately people just come over. When I do have to drive, I try to meet people at the Bass Pro if going South, or a mall if going North. Then there is something to do.

Some buyers don't want to pay the transfer fees. In at least one case the buyer didn't think that a transfer FFL should charge a fee to put a gun on his books or ship it.

With auctions I simply let guns pile up until I get six or so sitting around and then go pick then up. I try not to shop the auctions but sometimes find something that I can't live without.

 

[m1gunner]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
Not sure if the question from sar4937 was for me because of the forward trace, but IME, most sellers know who they sold a gun to. I am sure there are exceptions, but I can't recall a forward trace I was involved in that didn't have an answer as to where the gun was. Sometimes it was stolen, but there was always a police report.

I would never buy or sell a gun to an individual without getting a receipt and KNOWING (i.e. looking at the D/L or CWP) who the person was.

Bob

Many states have no requirement to keep records of private sales. The only requirement in my state is that the sale is to a resident of the state that is not prohibbited from owning a firearm. That is what I do and only what I do, period.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by sar4937:
On a face to face sale, how can you be sure the gun is not stolen or used in a crime. I had this same rant 6 months ago, it seems like there are a lot more guns on this forum being sold FTF only. I understand wanting to have an untraceable gun, but how do you know what you're buying is not on a sheet somewhere. I prefer, and will pay for the FFL to be involved because there is a ID and paperwork required. 3 years ago, I bought a 1006 off this forum. The guy lived in my state, so I thought it's a hundred mile drive I'll go and pick it up. Well the guy would only meet me in a city park, and it had kids playing soccer. So I sit and wait, it's illegal to have a firearm in a city park. The guy showed up about twenty minutes late with a friend. No CCW in those days. So when I got the gun home and removed the grips the gun was full of dried blood. And while it's a gun without federal paperwork, I'm scared to know it's history.

So long as the blood wasn't still dripping, eh. Probably just used in a suicide or somesuch, or a crime gun then resold into commerce once it was no longer needed as evidence. Little hot soapy water and it'll be good as new.

Suicide guns are usually the ones that have dried blood in them since they'll tend to sit in an accumulated pool until someone finds the body. It's really only a problem with blued guns since it messes up the finish, with stainless or polymer type guns it cleans up pretty well most of the time. Deduct about 10-20 percent in value on a suicide gun, more if someone is superstitious.