Clint Eastwood or John Wayne?
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I agree, Unforgiven wasn't an apology, it was a continuation of the same garbage Eastwood has become famous for.
He didn't defend the girl or his friend, it was revenge pure and simple. In society defense of others is acceptable, unless they are engaged in criminal activity like his friend. Revenge is not acceptable in reality, but it is the stuff films are made of.
The role that Gene Hackman played was probably about as close to a real Sheriff of the Old West as any movie has ever gotten. The fact that they killed Eastwoods friend, after the murder of the cowboy, doesn't give him the justification to murder everyone he sees either.
His "heroic" characters are more evil than the bad guys in most cowboy movies in the past. But this is why he appeals to so many fans, they want to be a scab on the face of society, but want to be thanked for it.
I know there is some reality in it, that even good people have some bad in them. And if you study the old west, you see it all the time. But most movies aren't a documentary of real life events. They are an art form, a way of expression of ones feelings or nature. But they also have an impact on the way people think. Movies used to teach that it's better to be good than bad, that crime does not pay and etc. Now they don't teach those things anymore. Hollywood glorifies bad boys, gangstas, dark natures and even worse. And our society is suffering from it.
Just my opinion.
He didn't defend the girl or his friend, it was revenge pure and simple. In society defense of others is acceptable, unless they are engaged in criminal activity like his friend. Revenge is not acceptable in reality, but it is the stuff films are made of.
The role that Gene Hackman played was probably about as close to a real Sheriff of the Old West as any movie has ever gotten. The fact that they killed Eastwoods friend, after the murder of the cowboy, doesn't give him the justification to murder everyone he sees either.
His "heroic" characters are more evil than the bad guys in most cowboy movies in the past. But this is why he appeals to so many fans, they want to be a scab on the face of society, but want to be thanked for it.
I know there is some reality in it, that even good people have some bad in them. And if you study the old west, you see it all the time. But most movies aren't a documentary of real life events. They are an art form, a way of expression of ones feelings or nature. But they also have an impact on the way people think. Movies used to teach that it's better to be good than bad, that crime does not pay and etc. Now they don't teach those things anymore. Hollywood glorifies bad boys, gangstas, dark natures and even worse. And our society is suffering from it.
Just my opinion.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I know this is ot but I cant resist. What gets me is actors that play basicly always the same type roles, say like with guns, then are activists from the opposite angle.
Also how fans can worship some of these pigs that are habitualy in trouble on the outside is beyound me.
Back in late 1964 I took a job at universal studios as a guard. Haveing been brought up in a fundamental christian family where we didnt go to movies, I didnt reconise the actors that most everyone else would. I met many and for short periods of time casualy knew many. The strange thing was, what little I had seen some on TV, or listening to other guards experiances with them, more often than not the ones I were warned were butt heads I got along well with, and some others that the media and people thought were great, I had opposite experances with!
God didnt make man to be worshiped, and very, very few can handel it, whether movie stars, athleats, politicans, or musicians.
Also how fans can worship some of these pigs that are habitualy in trouble on the outside is beyound me.
Back in late 1964 I took a job at universal studios as a guard. Haveing been brought up in a fundamental christian family where we didnt go to movies, I didnt reconise the actors that most everyone else would. I met many and for short periods of time casualy knew many. The strange thing was, what little I had seen some on TV, or listening to other guards experiances with them, more often than not the ones I were warned were butt heads I got along well with, and some others that the media and people thought were great, I had opposite experances with!
God didnt make man to be worshiped, and very, very few can handel it, whether movie stars, athleats, politicans, or musicians.
Combat_Diver
US Veteran
Like them both, and really loved the Duke in the Alamo. However my biggest influences in my life were Robin Moores (did meet him in 02' in Germany) book "The Green Berets", Barry Sadler's "Ballard of the Green Beret" song and that actor playing the role that I did 24 yrs in.
CD
When I picked up Robin Moore in Frankfurt, his last time seening Frankfurt was as a crew man of a B-17. No offense Wisent.
CD
When I picked up Robin Moore in Frankfurt, his last time seening Frankfurt was as a crew man of a B-17. No offense Wisent.
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HoosierMike
Member
John Wayne
Hello feralmerril,
I admit, I've opened up your posting al little late - but I would never call anyone a coward - except I had been at his side when behaving like one - and I do not think that the Duke or your dad were cowards at all.
No one who is going to fight for his country is a coward.
O.k. - I'm from Germany and they may call me a "right wing guy" . but I'm no Nazi at all. It was the U.S. and your soldiers who brought an end to this evil regime . BUT on the other hand I had the opportunity to grow up in peace and very secure from those communist countries from my day of birth on.
No one willing to fight for freedom and democracy is a coward
your are totally right
Best respects from Germany
PRK 25-5
Member
Gotta go with John Wayne
Life is tough. Even tougher when your stupid
Life is tough. Even tougher when your stupid
canoesmith
Member
John Wayne, hands down. A true american, a staunch conservative who walked the talk, even when it wasn't popular. His biggest regret in life is he never joined the military. Ate at him right until the end, he did his bit and more to support the military throughout his life, but he never went - even when John Ford, Jimmy Stewart and others did, he was furloughed as needed at home. He stayed and made movies with a message. We all have regrets. John Wayne, hands down - best cowboy actor of all time.
Can't even recall the name of Clint's horse. Hondo was the first one I remember, went to the Drive-in back in the day to see most of them.YogiBear
Absent Comrade
Aloha,
Two different personalities.
John Wayne's charcters, people I feel could be friends with or wouldn't mind as friends or neighbors.
Not so sure with Clint Eastwood's characters.
I go with John Wayne, I like his album, "America, Why I Love Her".
Two different personalities.
John Wayne's charcters, people I feel could be friends with or wouldn't mind as friends or neighbors.
Not so sure with Clint Eastwood's characters.
I go with John Wayne, I like his album, "America, Why I Love Her".
Duke426
Member
Clint, hands down.
On his very best day ever, John Wayne couldn't whip Clint.
On his very best day ever, John Wayne couldn't whip Clint.
semperfi71
US Veteran
I am with the apples and oranges crowd.
I guess one could say that J.W. was a better cowboy and Clint was a better killer. But to me they both made great westerns, their own way. Or in the case of The Duke's earlier movies, the John Ford way.
I also agree with liking all the other western movie stars mentioned here.
As for Jack Palance and "Shane" I had heard that this was his first time aboard a horse and that particular buckskin he was riding had already thrown him once. In the scene when he came riding into town at a high trot it was supposedly filmed that way because he couldn't ride well at any other pace. In the scene where he remounts slowly and menacingly he supposedly [Jack Palance] did that because he was afraid of the horse tossing him again, although mounting slow is the wrong way to get aboard if you think you are going to get tossed. Anyhow, the physical movements of Jack Palance in those scenes actually worked well to create the persona of a "real, dangerous, man." as Duke I think said in one of HIS movies. I still think Jack Palance in "Shane" is one of the most convincing bad men in westerns.
As far as John Wayne being a draft-dodger? I have heard four or five stories as to why he didn't serve. I JOKE around with my face-to-face acquaintances when they lionize John Wayne and I JOKE with them and call him a "draft-dodger". In reality, I wasn't around then, I wasn't there and I don't judge it.
However, I do think John Wayne is the American Beowulf. He is the only Hollywood movie actor who has had his name attached to so many facets of American culture. To be "John Wayne" is to be a brave, tough, and yes sometimes sensitive man. A LOT of American males from the 1940's to even now think, hope, try-to-be a John Wayne in some shape or form. He WAS the quintessential AMERICAN MAN.
When I was a Marine I heard, "Who the $&%* do you think you are? John Wayne?" ,when I or another Marine was wearing his helmet with straps undone, dog-tags hanging out of T-Shirt, etc., etc. I.E. appearing too "salty".
As an air traffic controller I warned a pilot that he was getting close to weather and he said, "Well, I'm just gonna John Wayne it and go on through."
I had a picture of a hippie with a banjo with an American flag on it, he was flipping the "bird". I had the original front cover of Life Magazine that had John Wayne on it in his western garb with his "signature" short barreled 1892 and the "Glower". Both were hung on the double doors of my wall locker. During the inspection a Gunny was preceding the "First Shirt" and he saw my display. He said, "John Wayne can stay, get that %^&* hippie off of there!". Neither was legal. But the Duke had reverence even among real fighting men.
I guess one could say that J.W. was a better cowboy and Clint was a better killer. But to me they both made great westerns, their own way. Or in the case of The Duke's earlier movies, the John Ford way.
I also agree with liking all the other western movie stars mentioned here.
As for Jack Palance and "Shane" I had heard that this was his first time aboard a horse and that particular buckskin he was riding had already thrown him once. In the scene when he came riding into town at a high trot it was supposedly filmed that way because he couldn't ride well at any other pace. In the scene where he remounts slowly and menacingly he supposedly [Jack Palance] did that because he was afraid of the horse tossing him again, although mounting slow is the wrong way to get aboard if you think you are going to get tossed. Anyhow, the physical movements of Jack Palance in those scenes actually worked well to create the persona of a "real, dangerous, man." as Duke I think said in one of HIS movies. I still think Jack Palance in "Shane" is one of the most convincing bad men in westerns.
As far as John Wayne being a draft-dodger? I have heard four or five stories as to why he didn't serve. I JOKE around with my face-to-face acquaintances when they lionize John Wayne and I JOKE with them and call him a "draft-dodger". In reality, I wasn't around then, I wasn't there and I don't judge it.
However, I do think John Wayne is the American Beowulf. He is the only Hollywood movie actor who has had his name attached to so many facets of American culture. To be "John Wayne" is to be a brave, tough, and yes sometimes sensitive man. A LOT of American males from the 1940's to even now think, hope, try-to-be a John Wayne in some shape or form. He WAS the quintessential AMERICAN MAN.
When I was a Marine I heard, "Who the $&%* do you think you are? John Wayne?" ,when I or another Marine was wearing his helmet with straps undone, dog-tags hanging out of T-Shirt, etc., etc. I.E. appearing too "salty".
As an air traffic controller I warned a pilot that he was getting close to weather and he said, "Well, I'm just gonna John Wayne it and go on through."
I had a picture of a hippie with a banjo with an American flag on it, he was flipping the "bird". I had the original front cover of Life Magazine that had John Wayne on it in his western garb with his "signature" short barreled 1892 and the "Glower". Both were hung on the double doors of my wall locker. During the inspection a Gunny was preceding the "First Shirt" and he saw my display. He said, "John Wayne can stay, get that %^&* hippie off of there!". Neither was legal. But the Duke had reverence even among real fighting men.
Many times, people confuse the actor with the man...by that I mean, an actor can convincingly play a character, or the same character many times, so that people think that it represents the man...when in reality, the man may be nothing like the character.
In John Wayne's case, though, I believe he was not so much an actor as he was a man playing himself. Perhaps it was only his own opinion of himself, but even so, he generally remained true to what he thought of himself in his characters. Even when he played somewhat less admirable characters in movies like The Searchers, wherein he was flawed, tormented, and almost an anti-hero, he still had the courage of his convictions and stayed true to his own moral code.
John Wayne was human...we tend to elevate our stars and professional athletes to god-like status, and forget that they too can make mistakes, have faults, and be less than perfect. I think his reasons for not serving in the military were complicated; the studio pursued several exemptions on his behalf, without his request, after he failed to contest his classification as 1A. He didn't protest their actions, though, motivated in part perhaps by their threats to sue him if he tried to serve, because of his contracts. Would they have really done so with the patriotic mood of the country at the time is questionable...but still, the threat was there. I think he regretted it for the rest of his life, and was embarrassed that he did not serve, especially since he loved America and wanted to be an advocate for her. How many of us have done something in life that we later regret? I know I have.
I like many movies, and I like many actors...so it is hard to say that I like one single actor better than all the others, for they all offer a different entertainment factor. As for the human beings themselves, in many cases I don't think I would like them in person. In the case of John Wayne, though, I think he would be a man that would be good to know as a human being.
My all time favorite John Wayne movie is not a western...it is "The Quiet Man."
In John Wayne's case, though, I believe he was not so much an actor as he was a man playing himself. Perhaps it was only his own opinion of himself, but even so, he generally remained true to what he thought of himself in his characters. Even when he played somewhat less admirable characters in movies like The Searchers, wherein he was flawed, tormented, and almost an anti-hero, he still had the courage of his convictions and stayed true to his own moral code.
John Wayne was human...we tend to elevate our stars and professional athletes to god-like status, and forget that they too can make mistakes, have faults, and be less than perfect. I think his reasons for not serving in the military were complicated; the studio pursued several exemptions on his behalf, without his request, after he failed to contest his classification as 1A. He didn't protest their actions, though, motivated in part perhaps by their threats to sue him if he tried to serve, because of his contracts. Would they have really done so with the patriotic mood of the country at the time is questionable...but still, the threat was there. I think he regretted it for the rest of his life, and was embarrassed that he did not serve, especially since he loved America and wanted to be an advocate for her. How many of us have done something in life that we later regret? I know I have.
I like many movies, and I like many actors...so it is hard to say that I like one single actor better than all the others, for they all offer a different entertainment factor. As for the human beings themselves, in many cases I don't think I would like them in person. In the case of John Wayne, though, I think he would be a man that would be good to know as a human being.
My all time favorite John Wayne movie is not a western...it is "The Quiet Man."
My all time favorite John Wayne movie is not a western...it is "The Quiet Man."
Ditto, also my all time favorite, Maureen O'Hara at her best too.
Ditto, also my all time favorite, Maureen O'Hara at her best too.
Out West
Member
Easy answer: Eastwood. Not even close.
oUt
WeSt
oUt
WeSt
FlYFiShErMaN
US Veteran
JW by a nose. The last few CE westerns have Clint gaining lots of style points, but I don't think anyone beats JW-EVER.
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