CMP 1911 news
- Thread starter Grayfox
- Start date
No Thanks!
To me, there's a lot NOT to like about the CMP 1911s, and especially what has become of the CMP sales program.
As some of you know, and some perhaps don't, the DCM (the predecessor to the CMP) sold Garands, 1911s, etc to qualifying citizens beginning in the post-war years. During the early to mid 1960s, the DCM charged between $15-20 for a 1911. That's about $180-240 in today's dollars accounting for inflation.
The intent of these sales was to foster interest and participation in Service Pistol matches, to earn your Distinguished Pistol Badge firing the National Match Course. In fact, that was the primary purpose of the DCM and the alleged purpose of today's CMP: to foster interest and participation in competitive shooting events based on the use of U.S. Service arms.
Part of the purchase requirement was to provide proof of competitive match shooting participation. In return, you got a basic serviceable pistol that was allowable and usable under DCM Match rules. They even provided info on accurizing techniques as allowed under DCM rules.
When I was getting started in Bullseye competition, a lot of the older guys were still using the DCM 1911s that they had purchased years ago. From what they told me, being able to buy one of these pistols and having them accurized was not only much less than buying a new Colt, it made their start in match shooting financially possible. And, that was the intent of the sales program!
Just my opinion, but the CMP have lost their way. They don't care at all about building competitive shooting through their sales program. Chances are, most of you would be hard-pressed to find a CMP sponsored service pistol match anywhere in your state, or within less than a full day's drive. This is sad, and a failure on their part, as participation and interest in precision pistol marksmanship is really dying off. (Makes me wonder exactly what are they doing with the money generated by these sales?)
Their pricing is based on what they've seen pistols being resold via online auctions. And, they want their share of the loot. In fact, they warn you that if they discover you are reselling your pistol, you will be banned from future purchases! (And they call themselves a 501c3 "non-profit" organization!)
For the money they're charging, there are much better options for the aspiring Service Pistol competitor. It wasn't that long ago that you could by a match conditioned "Hardball" Service pistol from Les Bair for $1200, or from Springfield Armory for just a little less.
To me, there's a lot NOT to like about the CMP 1911s, and especially what has become of the CMP sales program.
As some of you know, and some perhaps don't, the DCM (the predecessor to the CMP) sold Garands, 1911s, etc to qualifying citizens beginning in the post-war years. During the early to mid 1960s, the DCM charged between $15-20 for a 1911. That's about $180-240 in today's dollars accounting for inflation.
The intent of these sales was to foster interest and participation in Service Pistol matches, to earn your Distinguished Pistol Badge firing the National Match Course. In fact, that was the primary purpose of the DCM and the alleged purpose of today's CMP: to foster interest and participation in competitive shooting events based on the use of U.S. Service arms.
Part of the purchase requirement was to provide proof of competitive match shooting participation. In return, you got a basic serviceable pistol that was allowable and usable under DCM Match rules. They even provided info on accurizing techniques as allowed under DCM rules.
When I was getting started in Bullseye competition, a lot of the older guys were still using the DCM 1911s that they had purchased years ago. From what they told me, being able to buy one of these pistols and having them accurized was not only much less than buying a new Colt, it made their start in match shooting financially possible. And, that was the intent of the sales program!
Just my opinion, but the CMP have lost their way. They don't care at all about building competitive shooting through their sales program. Chances are, most of you would be hard-pressed to find a CMP sponsored service pistol match anywhere in your state, or within less than a full day's drive. This is sad, and a failure on their part, as participation and interest in precision pistol marksmanship is really dying off. (Makes me wonder exactly what are they doing with the money generated by these sales?)
Their pricing is based on what they've seen pistols being resold via online auctions. And, they want their share of the loot. In fact, they warn you that if they discover you are reselling your pistol, you will be banned from future purchases! (And they call themselves a 501c3 "non-profit" organization!)
For the money they're charging, there are much better options for the aspiring Service Pistol competitor. It wasn't that long ago that you could by a match conditioned "Hardball" Service pistol from Les Bair for $1200, or from Springfield Armory for just a little less.
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AJ
US Veteran
CMP is affiliated with the Government. That said it is in business to make money. Years ago you could only buy one Garand in your lifetime, under DCM rules. When CMP took over you could buy 8 Garands a year. Now they have cut that down to 6 a year. Who bought 8 Garands a year? Dealers or folks looking to cherry pick the rifles and make some money from all that could not. Do I blame a private company for making money? No... The money made is called profit and yes, some does go to shooting sports. Have seen Garands go for $50,000.00 on their auction site.....nice profit for some thing that cost the Government $85.00 during WW II.
The CMP is a business. The goal of any business is to make money or it ceases to exist, or gets bought out by someone who does know how to make money.
Just like car auto manufacturers, grocers, the gun industry, mattress manufacturers, etc….even Las Vegas casino's.
The only business that can run on endless deficits is well known.
Just like car auto manufacturers, grocers, the gun industry, mattress manufacturers, etc….even Las Vegas casino's.
The only business that can run on endless deficits is well known.
Seems like a long way around the barn for
what will likely be a parts gun.
Never saw the selling price.
what will likely be a parts gun.
Never saw the selling price.
AJ
US Veteran
About 99.9% are what you call parts guns. The government has not bought a M1911A1 since WW II, Oh, yes a few for the special operators, maybe Army Delta Force and the Marine Anti-Terrorist Units. Those will not be seen at CMP. The WW II guns have been rebuilt a few time's, plus when parts fail they are replaced also don't forget cleaning details. Not once in all of these functions did anyone ay attention to specific part by manufacturer. Parts is parts and as long as it works and fixes the problems, who cares. The mystique to these pistols is that they may have been used in WW II, Korea, Viet Nam and a bunch of other places. We did not care if the pistol was all one manufacturer, just that it worked as advertised!
DCM 1911 1962 sale,$19.99 but average wage was 6000 dollars a year and a new car $2000 and small ranch house $18000. A early WW-2 rebuild 1911 with WW-2 Colt Slide and and Colt barrel on a 1918 Colt frame. Some tank crews in Bush's 1st. Iraq war in the 1990's still had some 1911 forty-fives dating from WW-1 and M-3 greaseguns.
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Back in the late 60s when I was a whole lot younger I wanted a 1911 .45 surplus gun but couldn't find one at a reasonable price. New or used Colts were expensive for me at that time. One day at the local outdoor shooting range I ran into an older guy who had two .45s that he had gotten from the DCM. He sold me one for what he had paid for it, $23.50. The slide was Remington Rand but as to the rest of it I don't know. I kept it for several years until i could afford to trade it for a genuine Colt.
The CMP is not a "business" for profit. They are audited yearly and the money all goes to run the CMP operations, programs like the Camp Perry Competitions and the remainder goes into a endowment that was started in 1999 because they know the supply of firearms that they will be able to get from the government and sell is finite. So, the more they can get for the firearms they sell, the more money ends up in that endowment and the longer they will be able to continue their shooting programs.
It is not the CMP that is setting the prices. It is the people buying them that are showing a willingness to pay more. The CMP has tried to keep it it as fair as they can with limits on how many can be purchased to try and keep the dealers from snagging them all and reselling for a big profit. I have read posts by people on forums talking about how easy it was to flip the 1911 they got for a lot more money. The prices are not out of line for the present day. I understand that many are not either willing or able to spend this much for one, but there are plenty of people out there who are. So this is what we have got, and if it gets your goat then okay, sorry you feel that way. But blaming the CMP for it is ridiculous.
It is not the CMP that is setting the prices. It is the people buying them that are showing a willingness to pay more. The CMP has tried to keep it it as fair as they can with limits on how many can be purchased to try and keep the dealers from snagging them all and reselling for a big profit. I have read posts by people on forums talking about how easy it was to flip the 1911 they got for a lot more money. The prices are not out of line for the present day. I understand that many are not either willing or able to spend this much for one, but there are plenty of people out there who are. So this is what we have got, and if it gets your goat then okay, sorry you feel that way. But blaming the CMP for it is ridiculous.
Let's see, new Colt series 70 Government Model, for $950 or 80 + years old mix master rack grade CMP Government Model for $1050. Wow what a tough decision, uh....not hardly. I won't be fighting you all for a place on the CMP list
inspcalahan
Member
I predict the CMP won't be selling any guns in another 10-15 years at most. Unless they keep bringing back guns we loaned/transferred out of the US at some point, like the beachwood stocked carbines filtering back through, there won't be any other USGI guns to be released. They won't be offering Beretta M9s and Colt M4s to the public. If you want a true USGI gun, these are them.
The prices are ok, considering many flip them right afterward (against the purchase rules...) for a couple hundred or more over what they paid.
The prices are ok, considering many flip them right afterward (against the purchase rules...) for a couple hundred or more over what they paid.
AJ
US Veteran
I do not know if they will last that long. Their prices are lower than the open market. Dealers been buying from them for years and reselling them at a nice profit for the amount of work required.
Glynn863
Member
I got one in Round 2, a Rack Grade Remington Rand with matching slide, that appeared to be almost completely original, except for a worn finish. It still had a very good condition WW2-era High Standard barrel. The only parts I changed were the grips (put on WW2-era Keyes) and the slide stop, since the one that came with it was a WW1 Colt Slide stop.
I plan on submitting a Round 4 packet and rolling the dice on another Rack Grade, if available. Hopefully I'll get something else besides a RR, since I have the CMP RR M1911A1 and a RR M1911A1 I got from Bass Pro Used Guns Library before the CMP offered these. I paid about $350 more than for that one, but it did come with a Ciener .22LR Conversion kit as an accessory.
Just waiting on a new DL to come in so I can make a photocopy; I moved and had to change it recently. All of the other paperwork is ready.
Sure, newer and cheaper 1911s are out there, but these are historical (FOIA results), which makes them worth it IMHO.
I plan on submitting a Round 4 packet and rolling the dice on another Rack Grade, if available. Hopefully I'll get something else besides a RR, since I have the CMP RR M1911A1 and a RR M1911A1 I got from Bass Pro Used Guns Library before the CMP offered these. I paid about $350 more than for that one, but it did come with a Ciener .22LR Conversion kit as an accessory.
Just waiting on a new DL to come in so I can make a photocopy; I moved and had to change it recently. All of the other paperwork is ready.
Sure, newer and cheaper 1911s are out there, but these are historical (FOIA results), which makes them worth it IMHO.
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What does a FOIIA request on these give you?
HOUSTON RICK
Member
Good luck on getting nice 1911's to all here. I like my 1911 collection and just cannot justify more, but the chance at a WWII 1911 is always tempting.
Chubbs103
US Veteran
Realistically, you get the date and location of first delivery.
That's how I know mine was delivered to the San Antonio Armory in June of '45.
Glenn R. McMannly
Member
I personally like the fact CMP has allowed us to purchase 8 Garands per calendar year.
It is capitalism. And he who dies with the most toys wins.
It is capitalism. And he who dies with the most toys wins.
OP
Grayfox
US Veteran
I've decided to go for it. I figure that when I get the call, I can ask if I can get one of the rebuilt guns. If not, I can always just say no. But regardless, I probably won't turn down another one. The price is fair for what it is and will only increase in the future.
AJ
US Veteran
I've decided to go for it. I figure that when I get the call, I can ask if I can get one of the rebuilt guns. If not, I can always just say no. But regardless, I probably won't turn down another one. The price is fair for what it is and will only increase in the future.
They are all rebuilt. It is just a question of when and by whom. That information they will not know. I don't know if the Army reparked theirs, I know the Marines & Navy did so at NWS Crane, Indiana.
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