Cocked-and-locked carry. Good idea, or bad?

[38-44HD45]

Originally posted by Seaforth:
Why take a chance to save less than a second of time?

Perhaps, because you most likely only have about 2 seconds to begin with?

 

[Spotteddog]

And lets see? In one second???? How important?
I make that about 1/8 of a mile @ .45ACP velocities.

 

[38-44HD45]

We old IPSiCcers learned long ago just how LOOOONG a second can be. Can't do it anymore, but when I was shooting a lot, I could do Bill Drills easily at 7 yards with all A-hits. For the uninitiated, that's 6 shots, from an audible signal, from the holster, in 2 seconds. Of course, that was with a race gun and a race holster, not concealed, but with 180 power factor ammo. A second is for-frickin-ever when someone is trying to cut or shoot you or beat you with a length of chain.

 

[Guest]

Well you might want to look at it another way. In your car at 60mph you're traveling 88 feet per second and at 120mph you're going twice that far!!!

Think about that the next time you take your eyes off the Road to adjust the radio in your car!!!

 

[ArgMauser]

Originally posted by andyo5:
The owner of the gun shop advised me "there is NO safe way to carry a gun with a round in the chamber" (probably also for liability reasons).

The only true way to be safe is to carry the gun unloaded and disassembled with the ammunition locked in a safe having an unknown combination. Now that's safe. No further comment.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by ArgMauser:

Originally posted by andyo5:
The owner of the gun shop advised me "there is NO safe way to carry a gun with a round in the chamber" (probably also for liability reasons).

The only true way to be safe is to carry the gun unloaded and disassembled with the ammunition locked in a safe having an unknown combination. Now that's safe. No further comment.

Until you need it for self defense.

There is no perfect way. We live in a fallen world.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

For many years the Coast Guard required us to carry hammer down on an empty chamber while doing boardings. Chambering a round was considered to be a warning shot - as was chambering a round of 00 buckshot in a shotgun. We practiced drawing, chambering, then firing at the range. I never liked it.

Off-duty, today, I almost exclusively carry some 1911 ranging from a ParaOrd C6.45LDA, Colt New Agent, one of two Colt Combat Commanders, and numerous full-sized Colts, Sig, Taurus, or Rock Islands. Two days ago I bought a S&W 1911PD. Yesterday I went to the range with it; it is now my primary off-duty gun; I will continue to break it in but I see nothing but getting better with this gun.

In my opinion, when carrying cocked and locked I feel very comfortable and safe. In order for my 1911s to shoot the following has to happen (barring any unforseen catastrophic mechanical failures)...I have to draw the gun from its holster, firmly grip it to disengage the grip safety, disengage the slide lock safety, and squeeze the trigger - all while aiming in on the target. That's 5 functions I have to do - the "older" Texas Rangers used to deliberately defeat the grip safety by taking a piece of rawhide, string, or something else (shoe lace) and tying the grip safety down so it was disengaged all the time. I don't recall any of them shooting themselves with their Colt 1911s.

I am responsible for what my gun does; in over 45 years of shooting I have had 2 negligent discharges; both my fault and not due to the material condition of the gun. Being cocked and locked had nothing to do with it; all 4 of the above mentioned steps took place prior to me pulling the trigger. Stay safe out there...

 

[J.B. Thornton]

As long as all of the pistols parts are fitted correctly it is perfectly safe. A lot safer then a Glock that is carried cocked and no real safety, a baboon could get a hold of a Glock and empty the magazine, all that is needed is a pull of the trigger. The reason most people are scared of a cocked and locked 1911 is because they can actually see the hammer, all the working parts on Glock type pistols are hidden but does not make them safer.

J.B.

 

[szuppo]

I think if you have to ask you probably shouldn't carry the 1911 as your carry gun.

Not carrying cocked and locked will definitely take a precious second to get it into operating condition. Carrying coked and locked and not shooting it regularly from your carry condition will almost certainly have detrimental results.

I've seen countless people at the range draw a 1911 from the holster and try to squeeze off a round while the thumb safety was still engaged.

Add stress to the mix and your are asking for failure. JMHO

 

[bub75]

Originally posted by J.B. Thornton:
As long as all of the pistols parts are fitted correctly it is perfectly safe. A lot safer then a Glock that is carried cocked and no real safety, a baboon could get a hold of a Glock and empty the magazine, all that is needed is a pull of the trigger. The reason most people are scared of a cocked and locked 1911 is because they can actually see the hammer, all the working parts on Glock type pistols are hidden but does not make them safer.

J.B.

Bingo. With a properly fitted and assembled 1911, the gun will not fire even with the thumb safety off unless the grip safety is depressed. This is MUCH safer than a Glock, which has no manual safety and is, basically, cocked and unlocked when a round is chambered.

Bub

 

[one eye joe]

Carried a cocked and locked early Colt 1911 in my waistband w/o a holster as a back-up to my M16 in Vietnam 1968-1969. Neverhad a problem. IMHO-Don't use a holster with a snap or strap that intereferes with the removal of the weapon. while you are fumbling with your holster some bad guy could pop a cap on you ! one eye joe

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by Seaforth:
Why take a chance to save less than a second of time?

Take a chance on what, exactly, happening?

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
Browning Hi Powers came with a "safe system" or some such name for it not too long ago. This conversion was also offered for other guns by someone or another. This allowed safe hammer down carry on a live round.

I believe it was called the "Fast Action" system. I almost bought one when CDNN was practically giving them away.

Daewoo has/had a similar system. My best friend's wife (who's Korean) has one. Decent gun and a decent system.

I believe that Para Ordinance has something similar, "Light Double Action", I think.

If you're carrying an M1911 and you're not carrying it cocked and locked, you should probably be carrying something else. I've got zero interest in trying to chamber a round while somebody I need to shoot has hold of one of my arms. I've seen people in internet fora claim that you can chamber with one hand. None of them explains how you can do this while you're wrestling with somebody hitting you with a claw hammer or stabbing you with a steak knife.

Any gun that's 100% "safe" isn't of any use for its alleged purpose, about as relevant as non-flammable gasoline or a circular saw that won't cut anything.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by andyo5:

So now I'm wondering which risk is higher:
1. The risk that you would accidentally discharge the firearm due to carrying it loaded and cocked, or...
2. The risk of being hurt or killed because you could not get your gun into action in time to save yourself.

Unless they're in fires or are shot so much in a short period of time that they might as well be, properly designed guns in proper working condition just don't "go off". Somebody or something has to work the firing mechanism.

Unless you're planning to carry a Japanese Type 94,

if your gun goes off, it's because you pulled the trigger or allowed some other instrumentality to pull the trigger. And with an M1911, that means deactivate the thumb safety and activate the grip safety BEFORE the trigger is pulled.

As far as the gunshop owner goes, a "safe" gun can't accomplish its task, namely stopping a lethal force attack by using lethal force. I don't know if he was being a dolt, being cryptic, or what, but he's not going to have to pay the piper if you get up close and personal with somebody who grabs your left arm when you're carrying a semi-auto with an empty chamber and tries to beat, stab or shoot you.

 

[Spotteddog]

May all images of that accursed device be forever and always banned!