Collector mindset..N and K frames

[Model29-26.5]

Pinned and recessed or bust!
I’m all about P and R unless it’s 45’s.
My collection consists of 29’s, 629, 53, 28’s 27’s, 25’s, pre 17’s 19’s and 66’s.
The 17’s are the exception to my collection as they don’t have the shrouded cylinder rod that I am partial to, but I felt that I needed a dedicated 22lr or two.

With this said, I feel like I need a 686 and/or a 586.
J frame I guess is the inbetween magnum size.
I only feel I “need” one for the collection as it is such a classic.
The halfway model between a 19 and a 27??
What was its purpose and what specifically was the market wanting that the 19 or 27 didn’t quite deliver at that point?

Or was it a marketing idea by SW that they knew people would like?
I realize this may be a thread for the 1980 onwards but I think it’s a question that is related to both eras.
Thanks

 

[notsofast]

The 27 was a little more than the .357 required and the 19 just a little less than needed, the L frame .357…the “Goldilocks” gun.

 

[rct269]

"Collector mindset"----------------------------

Well, there are collectors and then there are collectors.

While your collection consists of model number guns, mine consisted of targets-----from the beginning (late 1870's) to the end of the "five screws" (mid 1950's).

It was at that point that S&W's very apparent philosophy for the first hundred years began to change---from achieving success by building the best possible product for the price, to building the product at the lowest possible cost.

This point of view is clearly a matter of opinion---and each to their own.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[71vette]

The L frame was an upgrade to the K frame. Designed as a ‘Super K frame”. The flat on the bottom of the forcing cone was a weak spot with a steady diet of hot magnums. The L frame is a touch bigger and designed for 357 Magnum.

I’m also an N frame and K frame guy. I currently only have one L, a 586-ND 4 inch. I will say it’s got one of the best triggers of my collection.

 

[Frailer]

With this said, I feel like I need a 686 and/or a 586…

What was its purpose and what specifically was the market wanting that the 19 or 27 didn’t quite deliver at that point?

Some of us are old enough to remember the advent of the L-frame. What the market wanted—as 71vette mentioned—was a revolver that could digest a steady diet of 125gr .357 Magnum JHPs (which was hailed as the king of the “one shot stop” at the time) but wasn’t as bulky as a Model 27.

 

[StrawHat]

Marketing gimmick.

Many folks were enamored with the look of the Colt Python. Some, went so far as to combine the Python barrel with the K or N frame to get the look they wanted with the superior S&W action.

Like many times in the past, S&W saw the potential and produced their own version. The grip frame of the Model 19 and the weight of the Model 27!

They could have done the same thing by offering the N frame with a K frame grip.

Kevin

 

[Model29-26.5]

"Collector mindset"----------------------------

“Well, there are collectors and then there are collectors.”

Oh yeah.
I have been collecting like a fiend since Jan but I do not consider myself a “collector” by any standards.



It’s interesting to see the different takes here.

From what I’ve come to understand the police wanted a lighter and easier carry 357, hence the 19, but a “steady diet” wasn’t great for it.
So 30 years hence, the 586.

“Steady diet” is ambiguous though.
Does this mean total rounds or does this mean don’t shoot lots in quick succession? I’d imagine the former, which kind of confused the meaning “steady diet”. Rather “The limit is around 30k magnum rounds over the lifetime of this model 19”
Or does the heating and shrinking over a quicker period of time have more of a bearing on lifespan of the forcing cone?
I am certain i’ll not be shooting anywhere close the number needed to wear out the forcing cone.

Plus.. the middle ground is so slight between the three that I’d think you’d really need to be a real top flight shooter to really notice and need that difference, and I can’t imagine there would be that much of a market demand BEFORE it was designed.
Maybe?
I’d be interested to know what the top bids at Smith of the day would say about that.

 

[schutz5]

S&W offered a plethora of models.
Because they could!

Much appreciated.

 

[luvsmiths]

With this said, I feel like I need a 686 and/or a 586.
J frame I guess is the in between magnum size.
I only feel I “need” one for the collection as it is such a classic.
The halfway model between a 19 and a 27??
What was its purpose and what specifically was the market wanting that the 19 or 27 didn’t quite deliver at that point?


Thanks

Uh- the 586/686- it's not a J frame.

 

[Sevens]

The cylinder length of the L-frame .357 Magnum revolver is also more capable or perhaps it could be called “modern” than the cylinder of the N-frame .357 Magnum revolvers. You have more length to run longer cartridges and explore heavier bullet weights.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Collector mindset"----------------------------

“Well, there are collectors and then there are collectors.”

Oh yeah.
I have been collecting like a fiend since Jan but I do not consider myself a “collector” by any standards.



It’s interesting to see the different takes here.

From what I’ve come to understand the police wanted a lighter and easier carry 357, hence the 19, but a “steady diet” wasn’t great for it.
So 30 years hence, the 586.

“Steady diet” is ambiguous though.
Does this mean total rounds or does this mean don’t shoot lots in quick succession? I’d imagine the former, which kind of confused the meaning “steady diet”. Rather “The limit is around 30k magnum rounds over the lifetime of this model 19”
Or does the heating and shrinking over a quicker period of time have more of a bearing on lifespan of the forcing cone?
I am certain i’ll not be shooting anywhere close the number needed to wear out the forcing cone.

Plus.. the middle ground is so slight between the three that I’d think you’d really need to be a real top flight shooter to really notice and need that difference, and I can’t imagine there would be that much of a market demand BEFORE it was designed.
Maybe?
I’d be interested to know what the top bids at Smith of the day would say about that.

When the Combat Magnum (later called the Model 19) was introduced in the 1950s, the thinking was most cop practice would be done with .38 special wadcutters and Magnum ammo was to be used for duty use.

As the 1970s rolled in, lighter than the standard 158 grain bullets, at higher velocity, became common. These cartridges could cause flame cutting of the top strap and cracks in the forcing cone. Plus, police training finally realized that duty ammo should be used for qualifications. The combination of these two factors showed that the K frame .357 Magnums may not be up to the task.

Thus was born the L frame.

 

[smithra_66]

Yep I own 10 Smith revolvers. 0 are newer than 1980. Pinned and P&R is the way to go!

 

[glenncal1]

My collection consists of 29’s, 629, 53, 28’s 27’s, 25’s, pre 17’s 19’s and 66’s.
The 17’s are the exception to my collection as they don’t have the shrouded cylinder rod that I am partial to, but I felt that I needed a dedicated 22lr or two.

You have a .22 with a shrouded rod in your 53, just need a .22lr cylinder for it. Mine is very accurate with the LR cylinder.

 

[Model29-26.5]

Uh- the 586/686- it's not a J frame.

Yes. I meant L. I’d know better if I had one! The inbetween frame

 

[Model29-26.5]

My collection consists of 29’s, 629, 53, 28’s 27’s, 25’s, pre 17’s 19’s and 66’s.
The 17’s are the exception to my collection as they don’t have the shrouded cylinder rod that I am partial to, but I felt that I needed a dedicated 22lr or two.

You have a .22 with a shrouded rod in your 53, just need a .22lr cylinder for it. Mine is very accurate with the LR cylinder.

Yes! I do. An extra cylinder should be on its way soon. USPS is taking forever to get my money order to the seller.
I’m looking forward to putting that one in as I her shooting factory jets is going to be an issue. I have shot 12 through it. No idea what the previous owner has done.

 

[handejector]

When the Combat Magnum (later called the Model 19) was introduced in the 1950s, the thinking was most cop practice would be done with .38 special wadcutters and Magnum ammo was to be used for duty use.

As the 1970s rolled in, lighter than the standard 158 grain bullets, at higher velocity, became common. These cartridges could cause flame cutting of the top strap and cracks in the forcing cone. Plus, police training finally realized that duty ammo should be used for qualifications. The combination of these two factors showed that the K frame .357 Magnums may not be up to the task.

Thus was born the L frame.

/\/\/\ THIS /\/\/\

An excellent summary.

 

[Grayfox]

The L-frame was designed to be the ideal .357 Magnum. Stronger than the K, but smaller and lighter than the N. I think S&W pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have three and love them.
But it also allowed them to come up with a 5 shot .44 Special. I love that cartridge and my 696 no dash is one of my absolute favorites.

 

[stansdds]

A little bit of a long article, but really good and explains the origins of the S&W L-frame. It also has plenty of pictures because some of us do not just read for the articles, we do like our gun p0rn.

The Smith & Wesson L-Frame Story – RevolverGuy.Com

 

[oysterer]

586 and 686 until -4 are the best revolvers the factory ever made.

 

[Doug M.]

The L frame also had a significant nod to the Python with its full lug barrel. (They generally take the same holsters.) While that probably helps with the recoil impulse of a stout .357 load, it becomes a bit too heavy. I also find the looks less than appealing. I had a 7 shot .357 Mountain Gun for a while and had to sell it during a tight period. That was a really regrettable decision. Replacing it at this time is not likely, as most of our money is obligated to another use.