Colt Army Special in 38 Long Colt

[PeterDE]

Saw this yesterday at the local Cabelas.
Listed as Colt Army Special , 38 long colt, 6 in barrel W/ holster
Wondering if this is a good deal, is it vintage, approximate date of manufacture etc? Any info appreciated. Serial number is at bottom of the tag. Also listed on Guns International at Colt Army Special
.38 LONG COLT

I looked up the ser no on the Colt web site and it matches a 1909 Army Special. Can it safely use 38 special?

 

[murphydog]

Brand C is not my area, but if it is an Army Special (it appears to be in the photo) it is a .38 Special. Can't imagine them making a special run in .38 Long Colt only but who knows?

You can look up dates of manufacture here (if you have the SN):

Colt Firearm Serial Number Lookup - Year of Manufacture

Probably worth the asking price if it functions well but did I mention this is not my area?

 

[824tsv]

From the Colt Fever website:

In 1908 Colt introduced a new medium frame revolver to replace the New Army & Navy models.
The new revolver used the much better action pioneered by the Colt New Pocket and New Service models.
This new model would be the basis for every medium frame double action revolver Colt produced up to the Colt Python of 1955.
The design changed so little over the years that many parts from a 1908 Army Special would interchange with a Python made in 2003.

The new revolver was designed to allow use of more powerful ammunition like the .38 Special and the .41 Colt.
It was an immediate success with police departments and under the Official Police name would be the standard police issue service revolver up into the 1960's.
The Army Special was available with blue and nickel finishes.
Barrel lengths were 4", 4 1/2", 5", and 6".
Calibers were .32-20, the various .38 Colt Long and Short cartridges, .38 Special, and .41 Colt.
Grips were black hard rubber with molded in checkering and Colt logos until 1923 when checkered walnut with silver Colt medallions became standard.

The Army Special was produced from 1908 to 1927.
In 1927, since the Army had never bought it but many police departments had, Colt simply changed the name to the Official Police and continued making it until 1969 virtually unchanged.

Your serial# dates to 1909. The wood stocks on the revolver are not from the same time frame.
From what I've read .38 Special can be shot in a revolver chambered in .38 Long Colt.

 

[glenncal1]

Don't know about the caliber interchange (google is your friend) but I had an army special in 32-20 that was a very nice gun. Sold it to concentrate on S&Ws but it was a nice piece.

 

[Bakebfr480]

I have seen two locally in lesser condition for more money.

 

[policerevolvercollector]

The correct caliber would be .38 Special. That's an early one with the "stylized C" logo. Maybe 1909-10. The stocks are much later than the gun also.

 

[2152hq]

AFAIK the Army Specials in 38cal were in 38Special caliber.
The 38 special chamber(s) should have a step at the front end of them as you normally see in most any revolver chamber these days indicating the length of the case.

Any Colt revolvers of that vintage and up to WW2 that were chambered in 38 Colt Long were bored straight thru. That included the SAA, Lightning, ect.
No chamber 'step',,just a straight thru cylinder chamber.

These will accept 38Special rounds as a rule, dependent upon what the AOL of the round is and the length the cylinder will take.
The 38Colt Long chambered lightnings will take 38Sp W/C for example,,but shooting them is not recommended for those elderly guns as a rule.

Anyway,,the 38Colt Long and Short will chamber and fire just fine in any revolver factory made for the 38Special round.
They are just shorter case versions of the 38Spcl.
Like a 44Rusian, 44Spec being shot in a 44MAg chamber.
The chamber step will not of course hinder the shorter rounds from chambering.

If the gun is a true 38Colt Long chambering, the gun will have straight bored thru chambers w/no step).
Being produced in the same time frame as the same gun in 38Special, I would have no problems firing 38Special in it but would limit my ammo selections to target and other mild loads.
The gun's over the century mark all ready and deserves a bit of respect.
I've never seen an Ar/Sp marked 38Colt Long,,I think a factory chambering would be somewhat of an oddity.

 

[Absalom]

The whole point of the Colt Army SPECIAL was that it was basically replacing the Colt Army/Navy in .38 LC with a gun chambered in .38 Special. So there is no such thing as an Army Special in .38 LC.

To the eternal befuddlement of people today, before WW II Colt seems to have assumed that owners could figure out what chambering it was, so all three .38 calibers, .38 LC, .38 New Police (= .38 S&W) and .38 Special were all just marked 38 on the barrel. The .38-200 variant of the Official Police made for the British was the first Colt marked more specifically with that caliber, likely to avoid confusion with the otherwise identical OP chambered in .38 Special made at the same time, which was still just marked 38 (see attached picture, an OP from March 1942).

I once talked to one of the Colt historians about this. Even in internal ledgers and other paperwork, there was no distinction made. If you letter a pre-war Colt, the caliber will simply be ".38/c".

That's where all the confusion and mislabeled Colts usually originate.

 

[PeterDE]

Thanks. I posted this on the colt forum and got fewer responses, but they were pretty much the same info. I didn't know about the chambering so I will have to go back and take a closer look.

 

[iPac]

Just make sure it is mechanically sound, as parts for the older pre-warII guns are hard to find. Then you would need someone capable of doing the work.

Price isn't too bad, but it would have to be in tip top mechanical shape for me.

 

[DWalt]

As previously noted, the Colt Army Special became the Colt Official Police via a name change in 1927. The Colt OP was the principal competitor of the S&W K-frame for police sales. Both the Army Special and the OP used the Colt "E" size frame. There are a few minor cosmetic differences differentiating the Army Special from the OP that Colt collectors quibble over. The Colt Army Special was available chambered in .32-20, .38 Special (which also allowed use of the shorter .38 LC and .38 SC), and .41 Colt. A very few are known as being chambered in .25-20. There was such a cartridge as the .38 Colt Special, identical to the .38 S&W Special, except the bullet had a flat point. BTW, in the 1950s the E-frame was modified slightly becoming the Colt I-frame, the major change being that the firing pin was moved from the hammer to the frame. The I-frame was used for Colt's earlier .357 revolvers - The .357, the Python, and the .357 Trooper.

The grips on the picture are not original. I believe all of the Army Specials used black hard rubber grips. Replacement original grips of that type are difficult to come by, and the lack of original grips is detrimental to value. Nonetheless, the price is not too bad.

Regarding the .38 Long Colt. It was the official U. S. military revolver cartridge (as used in the Colt Army & Navy revolver) from about 1889 until WWI, and fact its use continued into the 1920s in some limited military roles. It differs only in its lower power and shorter case length from the .38 S&W Special.

"The 1909 Army Special..." So far as I know there is no such Colt. There is a Colt Model 1909 military revolver in .45 Colt (actually a modified .45 Colt New Service revolver), and those are seldom seen. Fewer than 20K were made, and most of those vanished in the Philippine campaign.

 

[Absalom]

......
The grips on the picture are not original. I believe all of the Army Specials used black hard rubber grips. Replacement original grips of that type are difficult to come by, and the lack of original grips is detrimental to value. Nonetheless, the price is not too bad.
.....

The Army Special could be had with checkered wood stocks with medallion, but either by special order (before about 1924/25) or a very late one.

But indeed, the ones on this one are not the correct style, but are later, likely post-WW II. The early AS wooden stocks had recessed medallions. The picture below is of a 1924 AS that lettered as shipped with wooden stocks.