Colt Border Patrol New Service

[T44spl]

Mr mchom, lets say for argument sake that a Colt NS or even an S&W HD letters to a particular LE agency But the backstrap has been scrubbed and devoid of any stampings, what value can we assign to this gun now?
The factory has verified provenance by serial number But the markings have been removed, Now what?`

 

[mchom]

Mr mchom, lets say for argument sake that a Colt NS or even an S&W HD letters to a particular LE agency But the backstrap has been scrubbed and devoid of any stampings, what value can we assign to this gun now?
The factory has verified provenance by serial number But the markings have been removed, what?`

I would speculate in general maybe a -25% to -40% reduction. Maybe I am off. I probably am off. Others may be able to provide more accurate insight. It's possible the NS and OP guns that have markings removed might be affected to a lesser degree (If lettered to USBP). This is just my thinking since BP provenance is really appealing to collectors. Prob more so than a gun lettered to a local PD.

As to actual dollar value loss? I honestly am not certain on the current likely value of a marked USBP NS in decent condition. I've never seen one for sale.

This is pure speculation on my part: I would guess that the USBP marked guns might be in the price range of like condition S&W pre war magnums. Maybe someone can provide insight. So if one lettered and in good condition w/markings can fetch say $7500 to $8000
Maybe one lettered w/ground off marking can get $4k to $5k

Again just my guessing. Others might provide better insight

 

[AudieMurphy]

Mr mchom, lets say for argument sake that a Colt NS or even an S&W HD letters to a particular LE agency But the backstrap has been scrubbed and devoid of any stampings, what value can we assign to this gun now?
The factory has verified provenance by serial number But the markings have been removed, Now what?`

they're called "Its a shame" I have a few "shames" although none of these

 

[mchom]

Correction

I typed USBP
It might actually be USIBP on the NS

 

[mikerjf]

If someone was forbidden to keep possession of his father's service revolver…the agency had no choice but to deny it.

It's my understanding that the Rio Grande is part of the border… muddy water, sand, a lot of ways a fella could chase an illegal into the water and have his gun fall out of his holster… would probably be better if he hadn't tried to buy it first, just normal attrition. Even if he got fined for "losing" the gun…

 

[BE Mike]

It's my understanding that the Rio Grande is part of the border… muddy water, sand, a lot of ways a fella could chase an illegal into the water and have his gun fall out of his holster… would probably be better if he hadn't tried to buy it first, just normal attrition. Even if he got fined for "losing" the gun…

One would not want to "lose" his or her gun or badge, if one valued his or her job.

 

[BE Mike]

During the '90s President Clinton signed an Executive Order stating all agencies that issued firearms (under the Executive Branch) were forbidden to sell them, gift them or trade them in in an effort to keep such firearms from entering the commercial market. Agencies could trade and transfer between one another but that was it. Whether subsequent Presidents have kept that policy in force I don't know.

One agency I worked for had a number of very collectible Colt Commando revolvers, some Winchester Model 12 shotguns and a few other odd items. When that agency transitioned from S&W Model 64 revolvers to Sig 9mm pistols…all those older firearms in inventory went to the furnace for destruction. Such a waste of taxpayer money.

If someone was forbidden to keep possession of his father's service revolver…the agency had no choice but to deny it.

There have always been exceptions for those with high rank or political positions. "Rank has its privileges!"

 

[mchom]

Here a few pics

I know this thread is getting old but it's an intersting one to me

I recently was able to get these 2 NS USBIP marked guns. No letter yet but they look legit. I added the elk grips as the plastic ones on this particular gun appeared to be newer ill fitting replacements

I'll letter them to confirm

I've been watching the internet and gun shows for some time and these were the first I'd seen

These seem to be refinished. The proof mark ? On the left side over trigger guard is clear and even sharp on one but look blued over. My understanding is this mark was applied after bluing and one should be able to detect bare metal in the mark ?
The USBIP looks a bit polished

I wonder if the BP would refinish guns from time to time?
I know some Depts had an armorer / gunsmith in house for such things.

 

[T44spl]

Mchom, might I ask what the sn range that these guns are in? I believe NS revolvers that fit that configuration, 4 inch barrels chambered in 38 special with lanyard loops were issued to the USIBP in the 344,XXX to 345,XXX range. Nice pair of agency guns.
Probably refinished as you stated, but like LE related S&W Registered Magnums that were refinished that does not seem to deter collectors.
Guns were a working man's tools in that era so I believe an old refinish is expected.

 

[mchom]

Sure
I'll post em shortly. Stand by

 

[mchom]

L gun serial 349294
rack 0998

R gun serial 350991
Rack 1145

 

[T44spl]

Thank You for that information, were the Rack Numbers stamped anywhere
True BP guns are so seldom encountered, I appreciate that you are sharing this with us.

 

[DWalt]

There's no reason to bend the sights when two lead babbitts are all that's necessary to adjust the barrel. I learned that little trick at S&W Armorers School.

Maybe the technique wasn't known back then. The instructor at S&W said they don't advertise it because of fears Bubba will screw up guns and blame them.

Since you have actually done the Babbitt treatment, perhaps you can relate clearly and precisely how it is done. Maybe even with pictures. No one else on this forum appears able to provide an explanation that makes sense.

 

[mchom]

Dwalt / Snidely…
I mistakenly assumed when I read of Askins bending the sights on a bunch of new NS that they were the narrow bladed type. These front sights are rather solid and more substantial. They must be quite tricky to bend!

 

[T44spl]

As I recall Askins had some type of Jig made up that made the job easy. I'm sure it was necessary to clamp the gun in a vise to bend those sights.
But I've seen many of the shark fin blade sights that were Broken or Snapped from excessive force in either attempting to remove the barrel or bend the blade for sighting purposes.
The sight blades on these guns Don't have a lot of material to grab if one were to make adjustments for point of aim or impact. I Don't believe they were shaved, this is how these barrels were made.
There is a fellow on the Colt Forum, the coltguy who is the resident expert on the NS guns and he may be better informed on these matters
as he has done extensive research on these guns and is currently in the process of writing a book.

 

[Leroy Thompson]

Here's a photo from the FN article