Colt - DS or Police Positive?

[oneounceload]

I have a snub Colt I inherited from my dad - it was his "off-duty" gun. Looking up the serial number on Proofhouse under Police Positive, I get a year of 1930; looking it up under Detective Special, I get a year of 1928 (even though the title says both models)

Odd thing is the only barrel markings are "38 Special" on the left side. No Colt name anywhere, although the frame has the pony behind the characteristic release latch. The grips appear to be 1950s era aftermarket with an eagle in lieu of the Colt medallion. Since my dad was a cop starting in 1950, I suspect he either bought this used from a retiring cop or, (most likely). from John Jovino in NYC.

Any help, insight, or leads to follow is greatly appreciated.

 

[robertrwalsh]

photos would be a great deal of help

 

[oneounceload]

Sorry in advance if they're too big

 

[kcwheel]

Ok, I'll give it a whirl. The barrel raises suspicion since it should have some markings on the side of the barrel. Could they be worn smooth? Next, it is not a Police Positive. They had a shorter cylinder window in the frame. This one has the narrow (front to rear) grips, so if it is a Detective Special it is an early one, agreeing with '28 to '30. Those grips look like the proper ones, but I can't see the medallion clearly enough to say what it is. Could that eagle be a well worn rampant colt. Whatever it is, it is very special to have your Dad's duty gun.

Ken

 

[oneounceload]

I doubt the grips are original, they do not have Colt anywhere - it's the barrel that is throwing me for a loop. Could it have been a remaining barrel from a previous model they used up when the DS first came out? I do not know.
I'd like to get as much info as I can before sending off for the history from Colt so I can give them as much as I can to narrow things down.

 

[-db-]

If the grip medallions portray an eagle, they're Franzite brand reproduction grips.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have a pretty early (1931 I believe) DS. On the cylinder latch side the barrel has .38 Detective Special (.38 is full height, Detective and Special are half height, immediately behind the .38). On the other side in very small print is a two lines Colts Pt. Mfg Hartford Ct. USA top line, Pat Aug 5 1884, July 4 1905, Oct 5 1926 on the second line. Total bbl length about 1.92 inches. Barrel extension beyond ejector knob about .36 inches. Mine has silver COLT medallions in the grips.

 

[clang444]

It could be a Police Positive Special with a cut down barrel.

 

[rockquarry]

Submit photos and info on the Colt Forum. They'll pin it down.

 

[JohnRippert]

It could be a Police Positive Special with a cut down barrel.

Pretty much what I am thinking as well.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Looks to me like a 1920s vintage Colt Detective Special. See photo here for comparison:

https://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/9290655/1edc0abb01d3596526deec8f750d1ae0.jpg

 

[murphydog]

You can look up a serial number directly from the Colt website:

Colt Firearm Serial Number Lookup - Year of Manufacture

If the search comes up "Police Positive", this cannot be one, because the .38 Special version was named (you guessed it) the Police Positive Special. No explanation as to the barrel stamp but the shortened barrel/relocated front sight theory (and restamping) is possible.

 

[oneounceload]

Thanks for that link - these are the choices:

1950
OFFICERS MODEL SPECIAL
1930
POLICE POSITIVE .38
1930
BANKERS SPECIAL
1928
POLICE POSITIVE SPECIAL & DETECTIVE SPECIAL
1923
1908 HAMMERLESS .25
1920
1903 HAMMERLESS .32
1918
MODEL 1911 MILITARY
1916
SINGLE ACTION ARMY & BISLEY REVOLVERS
1911
ARMY SPECIAL & OFFICERS MODEL

Under the serial number is stamped a "D1" if that is any help

 

[Texas Star]

Your list is excessive. Most of those Colts are too big.

You clearly have either a Police Positive Special with a cut-down barrel, or a Detective Special, the same gun with a snub barrel.

Given the lack of markings, I think the barrel was cut, probably on a gun that originally had a five-inch barrel. A four-inch would be more likely, but the longer one might be more likely to have the markings lost in the cutting, as they'd be further out on the barrel.

This isn't rocket science. Get Boothroyd's.,The Handgun and Keith's, Sixguns and Haven and Belden's History of the Colt Revolver, 1836-1940, and you'll have most handgun questions answered. L.R. Wilson's, The Colt Heritage also belongs in your library.

The square butt was on Detective Specials from about 1927-1933, when the rounded butt appeared. Generals Eisenhower and Patton both had sq. butt DS guns.

 

[oneounceload]

Obviously, most of those do not apply; it appears to be the one labeled:

1928
POLICE POSITIVE SPECIAL & DETECTIVE SPECIAL

 

[DWalt]

From 1927-33 (one reference says 1926-33), the Colt Detective Special was just a Police Positive Special (square butt) with a factory 2" barrel. In 1933, the corners of the butt were rounded off. Yours seems the have the square-cornered butt. As to whether yours is factory original, the best indication would be what is stamped on the barrel. Unfortunately, I do not know what was stamped on the original early first issue DSs. Serven's book shows a clear picture of an early first issue (square butt) DS barrel stamped on the left side as 38 Detective Special (in 2 lines). That is not how yours is stamped, which indicates yours is probably a PPS with a cut barrel. A Colt factory letter would answer the question, but they are somewhat expensive. First issue DSs are very pricey. As are early (pre-WWII) second issues.

 

[Dump1567]

Here's a 1928 Det. Spl. I found on the net that looks like yours with the same barrel markings. It looks pretty much like yours in the pic, but with your cylinder partially open, it gives the illusion your barrel is shorter.

VERY EARLY 1928 COLT DETECTIVE SPECIAL MINT CRISP!

 

[DWalt]

I think the small "Detective" over the small "Special" stamping cannot be seen well in the above picture, but it is there. Enlarge one of the other pictures of the barrel in the listing which shows it more clearly. The OPs picture does not appear to have "Detective Special" in 2 lines stamped on the barrel, just "38 SPECIAL" of the same size. The Serven book's picture of a first issue DS also clearly shows "Detective Special" in two lines stamped on the barrel, with the taller "38" to the left of them.

It also appears from the OP's picture that the barrel length is a little shorter than that of the real first issue. I have no doubts that at least the OP's barrel in not factory original.

 

[Absalom]

The early PPS barrel marking had the words Police and Positive on top of each other followed by 38 Special in one line, matching the OP's barrel's appearance.

I'm with DWalt. The comparison of the two photos, as posted by dump1567, shows that the DS billed as original 1928 has a different barrel marking.

Therefore the OP's gun has a cut Police Positive Special barrel, which matches everything else about the gun, except the "eagle" on the medallion. I'd like a close-up not washed out by flash, but a silver-colored eagle would indicate a Sile aftermarket grip.

PS: As -db- suggested, Franzite could be a suspect too; that should be obvious, as all Franzite eagle logos I've seen had the word Franzite clearly stamped in the logo next to the bird.

 

[kwill1911]

It appears to me to have the narrow grip frame of the PPS, not the wider DS.