colt new service .455 eley

[kamloops67]

this just arrived in mail today, now i can participate in service pistol matches within our club.
i have done zero research on this particular piece.
i love the patina on this thing ,100 yrs old but itll still kick butt
i believe this gun was manufactured in 1911 and was shipped to england or canada before world war 1 ,but whether or not it served in the great war i dont know- yet- it has several proof stamps .
anyone know what the acceptance stamps looked like for canadian service? like i said i havent looked yet i came here first soon as i unwrapped it lol
the gun was reported to be unmodified ,and it appears to be original a 45acp is shown with 5 webley mkIIs the 45's rim is just slightly proud of the chamber. i think it would probably fire with federal primers. i will be using the correct ammo though ,just making note loading for these 455s will be interesting. im thinking ill try some bp loads as well, i think those would have been common just after the turn of the century .
here is a comparison between a 455 mk II , a 45 acp and a ,45 colt. 455 in bp would be pretty light i think?

 

[gunfish]

A fine old shooter. 45acp falls into my .455 chambers, I don't see how acp would be shootable. Are the proofs BNP?

 

[kamloops67]

no bnp proofs . no proofs on cyl face but there are a crown over a V and another that looks like a cf connected in cyl flutes on frame and on barrel.
there is also a VP inside a triangle at front of triggerguard and a number 3 at rear of triggerguard. there are no marks at all on right side frame and barrel. i think the v and crown are from london proof house, but not sure yet.
i have read that a privately owned revolver was sometimes spared some of the stamping when accepted into service, just speculation ive no clue.
still hunting

 

[ralph7]

no bnp proofs .
no proofs on cyl face but there are a crown over a V and another that looks like a cf connected in cyl flutes on frame and on barrel.
there is also a VP inside a triangle at front of triggerguard and a number 3 at rear of triggerguard. there are no marks at all on right side frame and barrel. i think the v and crown are from london proof house, but not sure yet.
i have read that a privately owned revolver was sometimes spared some of the stamping when accepted into service, just speculation ive no clue.
still hunting

I thought they all were stamped on the cylinder front. Was it faced off for .45 ACP?

 

[kamloops67]

i dont think so ... maybe. the 45 acp sits almost flush, about two thickness of paper high.how thick are moon clips?
if i load the revolver up with 44 mags the cylinder binds on the thick rims. 45 colt wont chamber .

 

[alwslate]

I don't think your gun has been converted to fire 45 AR or acp with
clips. If it had there would be a gap between the rear cyl face and
recoil shield similar to a 1917 model to allow for the extra thickness
of the AR rim or moon clips. My S&W second model was used in
Canada I believe and converted to 45 AR & acp and is stamped 45 AR
on the barrel. The extra space behind the cyl is easily seen and it has
lots of British proof marks. As to Canadian specific markings I don't
know for sure what to look for.

 

[kamloops67]

ok these are english commercial proof stamps from london proof house.
the crown with V stands for viewed and the GP with crown is verified proof. still dont know about its history, ill keep looking

 

[kamloops67]

I don't think your gun has been converted to fire 45 AR or acp with
clips. If it had there would be a gap between the rear cyl face and
recoil shield similar to a 1917 model to allow for the extra thickness
of the AR rim or moon clips. My S&W second model was used in
Canada I believe and converted to 45 AR & acp and is stamped 45 AR
on the barrel. The extra space behind the cyl is easily seen and it has
lots of British proof marks. As to Canadian specific markings I don't
know for sure what to look for.

your second model is a beauty, im currently looking at one in 455 .nice piece of history

 

[Cyrano]

That VP in a triangle on the front of the triggerguard is the Colt factory proof. I've seen it on commercial 45 autos.

The Canadian Army marking is a broad arrow inside a C.

 

[2152hq]

Nice early New Service.

Sounds like it was a commercially sold piece. It certainly could have been a private purchase by an Officer, but trying to find that info,,I have no idea if it's at all possible.
Gov't purchases would be proofed and then Gov't inspection & property stamped.
A British Broadarrow mark in the least. An arsenal inspectors marking (BSA, Enfield Lock). Canadian property would have the C/Broadarrow marking. Additional unit markings then added sometimes.

The VP is the Colt factory proof marking as pointed out. The 3 is a Colt inspectors marking. I think it is the final inspectors mark done after proof. The last inspection done to call the gun complete.
The VP/triangle mark was found on all Colts of any model. It gets called Colt's 'Verified Proof' and some call it Colt's 'Violent Proof' mark.
It's always on the left front edge of the trigger guard on handguns. (Fitz Specials made at the Colt factory had the VP placed at the rear left trigger guard edge due to the cut away guard.)
Still in use AFAIK,,at least it was a few years ago. Found on their long guns too but in various locations on the gun.

I'd hesitate to use BP loads in that nice handgun, only due to the fact of the residue that gets inside and causes rust.
It's fun,,I've done it,,but without a complete dissassembly and hot water cleaning, you can worry about unseen rust building inside there even from a couple of rounds.
'Historical Re-loading' a friend used to call it,,using BP in early cartridge handguns. PITA I called it. But I have to agree it was fun.

The cylinder does not look cut at all to me just looking at the pics. The very small gap betw cylinder and frame is nothing like needed to use moon-clips in a 45acp conversion.

Very nice revolver. I like the London Proofs,,I think Colt sent all of their arms directly to the London Proof House. It carried a bit of a status over the Birmingham marks,,still does on some guns and in some circles.

 

[Texas Star]

Officers then bought their own guns, and if purchased from a commercial source and not From Stores, the gun won't bear the Broad Arrow. Nor will commercial guns bought by civilians.

Colts were popular among UK gun buyers from the time of the Great Exhibition in London in 1851. Colt had UK dealers until the handgun ban of 1997.

In the 1930's, Colt published a book called, "Colt on the Trail." Jeff Cooper mentioned it and I found a copy at the the old Jackson Arms in Dallas many years ago. That shop is now closed, and IS NOT the present Jackson Armory located nearby in Snider Plaza, although they sell collector guns as well as modern ones.

In that booklet, a British woman living in India told of shooting a dangerous sloth bear with her husband's New Service in .45 Colt. That would have been a commercially purchased gun.

I had a New Service made in the 1930's that was in about new condition. It shot VERY well and to the sights, not always a sure thing with Colts. It'd put all six bullets in the same ragged hole at 25 yards, firing from the classic "offhand" stance. I used R-P commecial ammo with 250 grain RN lead bullets.

Be sure to check the cylinder timing. Colts wear quickly in that regard. It's one reason why I quit buyng them.

 

[Texas Star]

Oh: Take off the grips to clean there and to see if there's an MP stamp. What is now the RCMP adopted the Colt NS in 1905, I believe. Some later guns were in .455, issued in western Canada. To simplify ammo supply, the .45 Colt ones were issued in eastern Canada.

 

[jimmyj]

Oh: Take off the grips to clean there and to see if there's an MP stamp. What is now the RCMP adopted the Colt NS in 1905, I believe. Some later guns were in .455, issued in western Canada. To simplify ammo supply, the .45 Colt ones were issued in eastern Canada.

In the middle 1960s I acquired a Colt New Service in a trade that was .45 Colt caliber, 5.5" barrel, blued. On the back strap was stamped " NWMP" or "RCMP" (?)
I had it re-blued, then traded in for a Colt M1911 and a Walther P-38.
Another one of "Jimmy's Sins" that I will have to answer for at the "Gates".

 

[kamloops67]

removed grips-no stamps except an "E" .im thinking this was a commercial sale revolver. bringing decades of comfort to some limey no doubt. would like to know who owned it, how they used it etc.
easy to see how people become involved in collecting ,as a result of accumulating shooters. darn interesting.

 

[alwslate]

your second model is a beauty, im currently looking at one in 455 .nice piece of history

Thank you. It is in very good condition considering it's age
and looks to have been fired very little. If you are considering
buying one to go along with your Colt and reloading for them
realize that revolvers originally chambered for the 455
cartridge will have chamber throats that are oversize for the
.452 cast bullets that are commonly used in handloads. Bores
and chamber throats for the 455 typically are larger than
what is seen even in old 45 Colt revolvers. The bore of my
S&W is a reasonable .454 but the throats slug out at about
.458. I have read accounts of S&Ws made for 45 acp or 45
Colt with chamber throats this large and obtaining accuracy
is challenging to say the least. Shooting my gun with .452
bullets is a waste of components and I have some .454 cast
SWCs I plan to try when it warms up a bit . Good luck with
your Colt. Looks like it's in very good shape overall.

 

[nicky4968]

I believe Hornady is currently offering cases, bullets, and loaded cartridges for this gun.

 

[ddixie884]

I believe you are about a year late on that Hornady recommendation.

 

[Thuer]

I did shot my Webley revolvers in .455.

The .455 is actualy a .454 so I did use the same bullets as the .45 colt.
It worked fine with good accuracy.

Use a fast burning powder with a mild load.

I did use Vectan BA 10 2.6 grain behind the 230 .454 bullet. BA 10 is a very fast burning powder.

It works very good.

 

[kamloops67]

thanks for the replies guys, im still working on the 2nd model 455. ive found another in slightly worse condition for a bit less money. looks like ill be taking one of them home unless somebody beats me to the punch.
waiting for a couple of my other "done" deals to become liquid. fingers crossed
the gent that i purchased the colt from recommended a 200gr swc over 3.2 grains of trail boss .
Thuer: ill be looking for a 455 Webley too, before long any recommendations or things to beware of ?
im beginning to become fascinated with world war one revolvers . ever see a 455 Spanish Garate Anatua Smith&Wesson copy? looked at one recently with british military acceptance marks. couldnt make a trade otherwise id be showing a picture

 

[Thuer]

i am familiar with those revolvers to. Looks like a 1881 double action Smith and Wesson. The internal parts are completly different.
The Spanish revolvers has to do good in the British test. Otherwice they would not accepted.

A good Webley MK I to IV is to be found. They are a bit more rare now and you have to look harder. But they are there.

Do not buy on wich is converted to .45 acp. It ruins the collector value.

I do own a MK III, V, VI, Fosbery and the .38/200 MK IV

Still looking for the MK I, II and IV in .455