Colt vs S&W nickel plateing

[Vulcan Bob]

Hi all, after reading the recurring threads about cleaning nickel plated S&W's it got me to thinking about how S&W nickel plate's thier guns. I was told years ago that S&W does not now or ever had used a copper substrate before the nickel is applied and that Colt does. Now I've seen a few old S&W's that were flakeing and did not see any copper and I've seen Colt's flakeing and did see copper under the nickel. This seems to support what I was told and was hopeing someone here in the know could tell me if this is so. I would assume that a copper substrate would lend itself more vulnrable to a cleaning solvent such as Hoppes #9 than a plateing without the copper. Now I've been cleaning my nickeled S&W's with Hoppes #9,wipeing them dry of solvent then wipeing with a thin film of oil for quite a few years now with no ill results (so far). Any thoughts or info on this welcomed!

 

[jframe]

I don't know about copper this and that, or Hoppe's this and that, for that matter. What I DO know is that a friend bought a pretty decent Colt Python four inch in nickel a few years ago at the Jackson, Tn. gun show. He got the gun home, and started lightly rubbing the trigger guard with Flitz, and it went right on through the plating. He's a dedicated Colt man, so I know that he knows those guns. But now, he knows that their plating is not up to S&W standards. I can't afford a Python of ANY kind, but my 13-3 three inch is nickel, and it looked like a $200.00 special when I bought it. After an hour or so with Flitz and soft rags, it looks virtually brand new. There's two shameless pictures of it now; best I can do with a cell phone.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I don't know about copper this and that, or Hoppe's this and that, for that matter. What I DO know is that a friend bought a pretty decent Colt Python four inch in nickel a few years ago at the Jackson, Tn. gun show. He got the gun home, and started lightly rubbing the trigger guard with Flitz, and it went right on through the plating. He's a dedicated Colt man, so I know that he knows those guns. But now, he knows that their plating is not up to S&W standards. I can't afford a Python of ANY kind, but my 13-3 three inch is nickel, and it looked like a $200.00 special when I bought it. After an hour or so with Flitz and soft rags, it looks virtually brand new. There's two shameless pictures of it now; best I can do with a cell phone.

Nice M-13! I know what you mean, I picked up a really ratty,dirty but functionally good 19-4 snubby a few years back, and after working over the nickel with Flitz it too looks like a new one. Passed up a otherwise good eight inch nickeled Python last year due to flakeing nickel.

 

[2152hq]

I thought I read somewhere that S&W originally used a copper flash plating under their nickel plate.
That was very early, then after about the 1870's, they changed over to a process where they elliminated the need for a copper plate under the nickel plating.

On a few Colt's with fresh peeling nickel plating, I've seen the copper plate underneath. If the gun's been handled much with worn nickel plate, the very soft and thin copper plate coating is usually worn away quickly and goes unseen by anyone.

It's been said often that Hoppe's9 will cloud nickelplate. Any ammonia in the stuff will do it, but it may take a while. It would certainly attack copper I would think,,it's supposed to,,jacketed bullet fouling. Cupro-Nickel jacketed bullets, ect.
I've never had a problem with it but use it sparingly when I do.


Just a story and not blaming the quality of plating on S&W's....
The only personal experience with nickel S&W 's having the plating loosen & peel was with engraved guns.
These were 'aftermarket' engraved guns only. Engraving was done thru the factory nickel and left 'in the white'.
It was somewhat of a fad to do so in the 80's it seems and it actually creates quite a striking contrast though at first thought it may not seem so.
When done on a NIB revolver or auto, there seemed to be no problem with the nickel lifting or peeling from the edges of the new engraving cuts.
IF the gun was then used to any degree, the nickle would begin to peel, lift, curl from the edges of the engraving & on to the un-cut surfaces.

On a gun that had already see some use and was then engraved thru the nickel plating,,you could find tiny spots where the plating was already loosened at the edges of the cuts. Not many, not easily seen w/o magnification,
but they were there already just from doing the work.
Any further actual shooting w/ the gun would worsen the problem and it would have the same results as above.
The 'fad' came to and end!
No fault of the S&W plating. A nice high contrast idea for jewelry perhaps but not a good idea for a plated firearm whose parts expand and contract upon firing.

FWIW I think Colt went to Electroless Nickel plating at least for some of their finishes. That needs no copper plating beneath it if I understand it correctly. I think it's easier to deal with from the EPA type regs side of it too. Maybe S&W uses it to, I don't know. I don't keep up on the new stuff at all.

 

[keith44spl]

I was working on one of my Colt SAA, preparing it to a trip to the engraver...
Stripped the nickle and found this nice coating of smooth copper plate.

Oh course, had to stripped that off as well for the finish polish.

Just as an experiment, I placed a small part (the loading gate I think) in a container of
Hoppe's copper solvent. Copper came off in a jiffy.

Su Amigo,
Dave