OP
Yes on the 6 groove backstrap and here is the other side (best I could do until sun gets lower).
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Combat Magnum (Pre-Model 19)
- Thread starter spin132
- Start date
Yes on the 6 groove backstrap and here is the other side (best I could do until sun gets lower).
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Walter Rego
Member
I have been on the lookout for an early Combat Magnum for as long as I can remember. Always hoping that it would just be priced like a Model 19 in similar condition. And I have never seen one.
Of course I have no evidence of this but I have always guessed that when S&W introduced a new model, especially one that was to be a "flagship" model like the .44 Magnum or as they assumed the Combat Magnum to be, those guns would get some extra attention and only the best polishers and fitters would build them. At least for the first few months or few thousand guns. That gun sure looks like it was an example of S&W's best work. Whatever you paid, I'm sure you will forget about it soon. Like next time you put $100 in your gas tank and have nothing to show for it !
Of course I have no evidence of this but I have always guessed that when S&W introduced a new model, especially one that was to be a "flagship" model like the .44 Magnum or as they assumed the Combat Magnum to be, those guns would get some extra attention and only the best polishers and fitters would build them. At least for the first few months or few thousand guns. That gun sure looks like it was an example of S&W's best work. Whatever you paid, I'm sure you will forget about it soon. Like next time you put $100 in your gas tank and have nothing to show for it !
OP
Try as i might, I'm having trouble seeing this feature? Unless I'm missing something, my Pre-19 shroud looks pretty much the same as my 19-3 (shipped in 69)?
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Engine49guy
Member
I'm guessing that's a pic of your 19-3?
First is good news as the stocks on that gun are the correct style for your early Combat Magnum (notice the checkering sharp turn at the heel).
You can swap grips but the original stocks on a 19-3 would be non diamond GA's.
Btw the 4" 19-3's made in 67-69 have the old style seperate fs ramp that is a seperate piece pinned to the frame, starting in either very late 69 or early 70 the ramp became an integral part of the barrel, if yours is a low to mid K900,000 range it should have the pinned ramp.
As for the ejector rod shroud shape compare from the right side, you will see the 19-3 has sharper angles and is slightly elongated where it meets the barrel, also the blending down of their shrouds raised ribs will appear very different, Usually the later guns rib blending looks a bit smoother but these vary from gun to gun .
( on a side note the early pre 27's have the same appearance as the early pre 19's ).
One more thing I have noticed the amount of rod pin protrusion out the front of the shroud is usually more pronounced on earlier guns, I wondered if the newer ejector rod shrouds are a few mm's longer but am too lazy to measure lol.
Can you post a pic of you two guns showing their right sides, and their ejector rod pin protrusion at the front?
You should easily see the differences.
First is good news as the stocks on that gun are the correct style for your early Combat Magnum (notice the checkering sharp turn at the heel).
You can swap grips but the original stocks on a 19-3 would be non diamond GA's.
Btw the 4" 19-3's made in 67-69 have the old style seperate fs ramp that is a seperate piece pinned to the frame, starting in either very late 69 or early 70 the ramp became an integral part of the barrel, if yours is a low to mid K900,000 range it should have the pinned ramp.
As for the ejector rod shroud shape compare from the right side, you will see the 19-3 has sharper angles and is slightly elongated where it meets the barrel, also the blending down of their shrouds raised ribs will appear very different, Usually the later guns rib blending looks a bit smoother but these vary from gun to gun .
( on a side note the early pre 27's have the same appearance as the early pre 19's ).
One more thing I have noticed the amount of rod pin protrusion out the front of the shroud is usually more pronounced on earlier guns, I wondered if the newer ejector rod shrouds are a few mm's longer but am too lazy to measure lol.
Can you post a pic of you two guns showing their right sides, and their ejector rod pin protrusion at the front?
You should easily see the differences.
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OP
I see the difference in the checkering now, thank you!
Coincidentally, there is an early CM for sale now at a popular site that has a set of target stocks numbered to the revolver. You have to zoom in to see (260xxx).
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OP
Engine49guy, first I want to thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me and others, most appreciated! You, like so many others on this forum, are very generous with your time and knowledge!
The ejector rod shroud shape differences are crystal clear to me now. I am posting pictures as requested so others may see as well.
PS - your moniker should be Engine19guy!!
PRE-19 (shipped April 1956)
19-3 (shipped July 1969)
PRE-27 (Shipped April 1955)
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You were right about the ejector rod pin protrusions too!
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Engine49guy
Member
Lol...E19 I like that !
Btw another difference to observe is you will notice your pre 19 right side barrel rollstamp says S&W ( Dot Dot) 357 Magnum where the 19-3 says S&W (Dot) 357 Magnum., IIRC this changed in the late 60's.
Another unique feature of early Combat Magnums you will see your serial is stamped inside the ejector rod shroud as well as on the cylinder face,
Your 69 and 56 should both have large ampersands in the 4 line address, this changed in the early 70's to a modern ampersand.
Btw yes only the earliest Combat Magnums are found with serialed grips and they are few, on a side note notice how that pre 19 has a jig hole cut into the grip frame, if you remove your 19-3 stocks it will not be there as it was deleted years prior.
I'm
Btw another difference to observe is you will notice your pre 19 right side barrel rollstamp says S&W ( Dot Dot) 357 Magnum where the 19-3 says S&W (Dot) 357 Magnum., IIRC this changed in the late 60's.
Another unique feature of early Combat Magnums you will see your serial is stamped inside the ejector rod shroud as well as on the cylinder face,
Your 69 and 56 should both have large ampersands in the 4 line address, this changed in the early 70's to a modern ampersand.
Btw yes only the earliest Combat Magnums are found with serialed grips and they are few, on a side note notice how that pre 19 has a jig hole cut into the grip frame, if you remove your 19-3 stocks it will not be there as it was deleted years prior.
I'm
PaulDoc
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Engine49, that is some great information you mentioned. I have a CM 1959 and enjoyed pulling it out to find all the different nuisances you point out. Thanks.
OP
I notice that the font of the roll stamp on the right side of the barrel is different on the 19-3. Also, the earlier pre 19 and pre 27 also have the lazy ampersand in the barrel roll mark.
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The directive to implement the new side plate with the elimination of the top side plate screw for all K and KT models was issued on September 7, 1955. A year earlier than the same directive issued for N and NT models. The new .357 Combat Magnum was the first model to incorporate the change and that is why there are no Combat Magnums with a 5-screw frame.
Bill
Bill
Engine49guy
Member
Just reread this thread,
One other thing to mention is in your posted pics above you will notice that the front site ramps on all three are held in place to their barrels with two horizontal set pins and polished flush, S&W enthusiasts sometimes refer to these as "blind" set pins as they are hard to see, the majority of Combat Magnums made before 1970 have blind set pins, the exception is in nickel CM's made prior to 1970 where you usually find what's called " Proud" fs pins that stick out a bit.
Your 1969 made 19-3 is the end of the fs ramp being a seperate piece pinned to the barrel rib, if you compare yours to one made in 1970 you will see the ramp becomes integral with the barrel so no more set pins on the fs ramp.
What makes SW collecting so much fun is that the factory kept making design changes.
Ps, the early CM gripframe pic in post 25 above is a great example of the early guns round "jig hole" cut , if you remove your 19-3 stocks that jig hole is long gone.
One other thing to mention is in your posted pics above you will notice that the front site ramps on all three are held in place to their barrels with two horizontal set pins and polished flush, S&W enthusiasts sometimes refer to these as "blind" set pins as they are hard to see, the majority of Combat Magnums made before 1970 have blind set pins, the exception is in nickel CM's made prior to 1970 where you usually find what's called " Proud" fs pins that stick out a bit.
Your 1969 made 19-3 is the end of the fs ramp being a seperate piece pinned to the barrel rib, if you compare yours to one made in 1970 you will see the ramp becomes integral with the barrel so no more set pins on the fs ramp.
What makes SW collecting so much fun is that the factory kept making design changes.
Ps, the early CM gripframe pic in post 25 above is a great example of the early guns round "jig hole" cut , if you remove your 19-3 stocks that jig hole is long gone.
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