Comparing Calibers for Home Defense

Tom Goodrick

Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
67
Reaction score
9
Location
Madison, AL
Muzzle velocity data is from a Federal Cartridge
ballistics calculator downloaded from the Federal
Cartridge web site. In order to show their data, I had
to accept responsibility for its accuracy. I went to
high school in Anoka, Minnesota where Federal Cartridge
is located. I knew many people who worked there.

The data is well-suited for comparison between calibers
because 1) almost all shots were made using a 4-inch
barrel which is very close to the HD guns, 2) Federal
makes good defense bullets in all calibers so in most
cases the performance can be compared between calibers
using the same bullet design. For each caliber I chose a
common cartridge and a high-energy cartridge. The only
exception to the 4-inch barrel length is the 45 auto
which was tested in 5-inch barrels. The 357 Magnum data
was from a 4-inch vented barrel which simulates the gap
in a revolver between barrel and cylinder.

The two key data elements are the bullet mass (grains)
and the muzzle velocity. They trap the velocity at
several points beyond the muzzle going out to 75 yards.
But for Home Defense (HD) we are not firing long
distances. We're in our house firing at guys who
have just broken through a door or a window.

I calculated and displayed the "Power Factor" which is the
same parameter calculated for IDPE matches using that
same term. It is simply the product of the mass and the
muzzle velocity. It is not so much "Power" in physics as
the momentum of the bullet at the muzzle. But it is a
figure of merit that many people are familiar with. The

I calculated Muzzle Energy by the formula:

Mass x Muzvel x Muzvel / 450380 foot-pounds.

It is a well-known physics parameter used in damage measurements. It is the kinetic energy of the bullet at the muzzle which, if contact occurred at that point would contribute to all internal damage within the target object.

During impact the energy is transformed in a variety of ways until all the mass of the bullet, including
fragments, have stopped moving. When the bullet
encounters internal masses such as bone or captive
liquids within organs, some of the remaining energy is
transferred to the bone fragments and internal liquids,
often causing failure of the containing organs. There is
nothing abstract about energy although it brings damage
to the target in a variety of ways that cannot generally
be predicted. The impact in a living organism is
certainly a matter of chaos.


Caliber Ammo Bullet Wt M Vel PowrFct MuzEnergy
9 MM P9HS1 H S JHP 124 1120 138880 345
P9HS2 SAME 147 1000 147000 326
40 S&W P40HS1 SAME 180 1000 180000 400
P40HS2 SAME 155 1155 179025 459
357SIG P357S1 JHP 125 1350 168750 506
45 AUTO P45HS1 H S JHP 230 900 207000 414
PD45GRD GRD DOG* 165 1140 188100 476

357 PD357HS2H JHP 130 1410 183300 574
Revolver

*Guard Dog is Federal's term for an effective defensive round.

I could have included the 10 mm cartridge but Federal
shows its muzzle energy is the same as the .40 S&W at
427 ft-lbs. That is a little low but I suspect Federal
does not want to break any 10 mm guns. To cap off the
table I have included the 357 Magnum revolver cartridge
for a 4-inch barrel. This would apply to the Ruger GP-
100 DA revolver. It is one of the few Double Action
revolvers that I can fire with some accuracy. It can
also be fired in Single Action mode by cocking the
hammer for better accuracy.

The data show a clear distinction between the low power
and energy level of the 9 mm cartridge and the larger
calibers. The 357 Sig and the 357 Magnum both stand out
with greater power and energy than the .40 morm .45.

Note that the .range of energy of the .40 (400 to 459
ft-lb) is about the same as the range for the .45 Auto
(414 to 476 ft-lb). Many people consider them
equivalent. The .45 does have a higher IDPE power
rating. The significance of that may be debated. Since
size does not matter in an HD gun, this shows you could
choose the 1911-style 45 Auto if you want to play safe.

The reason I included the .357 cartidges is to address
the possible use of body armor by the BG's invading our
houses. The .357 might penetrate body armor that has a
low level of protection. I am considering upgrading my M&P 40 FS to .357Sig by exchanging the barrel. But I also intend to shoot the Ruger GP-100 in .357 magnum with a laser sight in a few weeks. That's a much more expensive upgrade but may be worthwhile.

However, these rounds may add the danger of unintended
casualties as the bullets can penetrate the walls of
your home and hurt someone in a neighboring house.

The defense cartridges mentioned here are all fairly expensive running $1 to $2 per bullet. If you think that is too much, how much do you value your life? You would use cheaper FMJ ammo for practice at the range. That ammo should be the same weight as the defense ammo. It may also be reasonable to use .40 for practice and .357 Sig for defense after experiencing the difference. .40 FMJ is about $0.32 per bullet while .357 Sig FMJ is about $0.72 per bullet.
 
Register to hide this ad
The defense cartridges mentioned here are all fairly expensive running $1 to $2 per bullet. If you think that is too much, how much do you value your life? You would use cheaper FMJ ammo for practice at the range. That ammo should be the same weight as the defense ammo. It may also be reasonable to use .40 for practice and .357 Sig for defense after experiencing the difference. .40 FMJ is about $0.32 per bullet while .357 Sig FMJ is about $0.72 per bullet.

You can always use police contract over-runs or surplus for SD. Winchester 9mm SXT can be purchased for $0.36/rd. WW white box .45 ACP HP can be puchased for about $0.72/rd.

I have no objection to anyone carrying SD ammo that costs $2.00/rd. The problem that arises is when you run 200 or more rounds through your pistol to assure that it will feed and function 100% of the time with your choice of carry ammo. That gets costly quick.
 
Because you're interested in how handgun rounds perform against humans, I recommend you read this:

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. All handgun cartridges suck against determined human adversaries. Modern heavy-for-caliber (147 gr in 9mm, 180 gr in .40, and 230 gr in .45)controlled expansion bullets in loads from the best manufacturers make the best of a bad situation (Winchester Ranger, Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, CorBon DPX) if all you have available is a handgun. There is no indication that energy transferred or temporary stretch cavities contribute anything to putting humans out of a fight, at least at the relatively low velocities at which handgun cartridges operate. Crushing the tissue that's directly in the path of the bullet is all the damage a handgun round does.

If you want to stop a threat quickly, shoot it with a shotgun(12, 16, or maybe 20 gauge) with a good buck(000, 00, 0, or #1) or slug load, or with a rifle with good loads with adequate penetration and reliable expansion.

In any case hit the threat in the heart or a major blood vessel if you want to stop a determined adversary eventually, or in the brain or upper spine if you need to stop that adversary immediately.

This guy, Paul Gomez, said it much better than I can:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dA36NYLqns&feature=relmfu
 
Last edited:
Not to be a smart *** but I'm pretty sure if you double tap somebody in the chest w/ at least a 9mm hollow point there deff going to go down. But there is still a possibility that the intruder is going to be wearing a type of body armor. This is where you make a good point about using the .357 sig or mag. I'd rather take my chances w my 9mm or my .40 and save my neighbor standing on the other side of the wall. Just my opinion
 
Bear in mind that after the cops leave, your wife is gonna expect you to clean up the mess on the carpet, walls, and ceiling. The bigger the bullet, the bigger the mess. A steady volley of .22 shorts will have the same effect as a swarm of angry hornets. I'd rather have the knot-head yelling "Ouch, ouch, ouch" as he's running out the door than transform him into a sticky mural on the living room wall.
 
I respect your opinion, but if somebody kicks the door in that my family is behind; he is not going to live to tell the story. I'll go live somewhere else!!
 
Last edited:
Not to be a smart *** but I'm pretty sure if you double tap somebody in the chest w/ at least a 9mm hollow point there deff going to go down. But there is still a possibility that the intruder is going to be wearing a type of body armor. This is where you make a good point about using the .357 sig or mag. I'd rather take my chances w my 9mm or my .40 and save my neighbor standing on the other side of the wall. Just my opinion

I feel there is a great chance nowadays of a intruder wearing bodyarmor. I do worry about going deaf from the effects of a 357mag fired inside the home. I've looked at some historical examples lately to find 45acp is a terrible round against body armor. People swear by the 327mag as being quieter than other magnums, which I heard was a great performer against level 2 body armor. I don't own a 327 but I've thought about one. Most nights one of my Glock 40's sit on the night stand. Unless their wearing rifle plates I think I can slow them down.
 
Thanks for the many excellent replies to my post. Some of the references are old and predate the development of some of the modern rounds and bullet designs. I think there was a poor statement by the FBI reviewer who probably did not mean to tie temporary cavatation so tightly to kinetic energy as though some other energy takes over to make permanent cavitation. There is no doubt this topic is complex. It is difficult to verify any particular theory with designed experimentation or with incident analyses. It is good to review this work periodically because results change. I think I will rely mainly on .40 S&W but I will also develop a capability in other calibers including .357 Sig and .45 Auto using the M&P line.
 
This is always at hotly debated subject. There are many theories, all subjective and based many times on the researchers preconceived ideas.

That said, the 12Ga is the best home defense round, after it everything else is downhill.

I would also like to point out one error and several omissions from my point of view.

The error, you and Federal grossly underestimate the 10mm. The Federal numbers are a farce. Compare the .40 to the SD round I use from Underwood Ammo and there is no comparison in numbers. I'm firing a 165gr round at 1400 fps. I'm firing a heavier bullet at as fast as the .357 Mag or in the .357 Sigs case faster. Clearly the 10mm UA load is the king of the loads you mention

The +P 45 ACP was omitted, I'd be interested to see where that would be on the scale.

The +P 9mm rounds in 124 and 127 grain versions are very close to the .357 Sig in performance. They are also the chosen SD rounds for most people who choose 9mm.

Finally, the .44 Mag is missing. It can certainly be loaded to be an excellent SD round.

Don't get me wrong, you did some good work, just pointing out a few things you could add to have a more complete position.

JMO
 
Last edited:
A 12ga head shot with any ammo will take care of the problem without technical difficulties. Clean-up may be labor intensive. KISS.
 
Personally, I don't think there's a dime's worth of difference in practice in HD from 9mm on up. Again personally, I'd much prefer having 17x9mm to 8x45ACP.

If you're worried about body armored intruders, you probably want a five-seven. After all, they may well be wearing IIIa :)

Finally, every time I see one of these threads I'm reminded how much I enjoyed reading The Box of Truth. A series of 6 light, humorous descriptions and photos of various caliber handguns and long guns as they encounter wall board, pine boards, water jugs, and bricks. It taught me the difference between "concealment" and "cover". For further education on the difference, you might read the companion series "The Buick of Truth".

Edit Add: Chapter 5 includes a test of a Shiloh Sharps .45-70, Long Range Express loaded with a 515 grain round nose, gas checked, hard cast bullet over 41.0 grains AA 2495 for about 1500 fps. Uhh, yeah, it did the best :)
 
Last edited:
NEED EXPERIENCED OPINIONS.

I just purchased a Smith & Wesson Model 29-2 with a 4" barrel. I plan to use it for home defense and some carry.

I have not shot one since the early 80's when I had a Smith 629 6" barrel, so I don't remember to great ammo I used.

I do not have close neighbors, nor do I worry about the mess. I am looking for a round that will protect my family, end of story.
Garrett ammo is very expensive, but willing go that direction if there is not a good round on the market at a fair price.
How about Hornady XTP JHP 44 mag 240 grn, or Hornady 44 magnum 300g XTP, or Remington 44 Mag 240 grain SJHP ?

Thanks for your help in advance; I am listening for your opinions.

I carry a .44 regularly during the cooler months. The thing with the .44 of course is not going with too hot a load due to over penetration, which I'm sure you already knew, just bringing it up out of necessity.

I'm not in bear country, so any SD round I choose is mainly for 2 legged creatures, but will work for animals as well. I carry 2 speed loaders. One of the speed loaders has 300gr XTP in it for barriers etc, that would drop about anything you'll comer across in animals as well. The other two loads I carry in the gun and other speed loader are, either the Barnes 225 grain XPB Copper or the Federal 225 Grain Barnes XPB Copper load. The difference in the loads is the Barnes version comes in at 1120 FPS 665 MVE, the Federal load at 1280 FPS and 818 MVE. I like the Barnes in my 3" .44, the lesser MVE leads to quicker follow-up, the Federal in my Full Sized .44's.

JMO, hope it helps.
 
For home Defense 12 guage double ought buck in a compact platform with light should be your primary choice. If a drug cartel is invading, .308 or .223 carbine will be your friend, in either case a full size .45 with light and possibly laser as your back up is also your friend.

For carry, boils down to the biggest gun in the most powerful caliber you can and will EDC. For ammo, mid to heavy grain in any of the big names (Gold dot, HST, Ranger T, Hornady) is what you need. Everything else is just making things overly complicated.

One item often overlooked, besides living in a safe neighborhood, alarm system and making your home break in resistant is body armor. No I don't own any, but I do intend to buy a vest w/rifle plates. Wouldn't hurt to keep next to the bed with the shottie and .45. Call me crazy, call me paranoid, but if you need the firearms, you'll likely be happy you have the vest next to the bed as well.
 
For home Defense 12 guage double ought buck in a compact platform with light should be your primary choice. If a drug cartel is invading, .308 or .223 carbine will be your friend, in either case a full size .45 with light and possibly laser as your back up is also your friend.

For carry, boils down to the biggest gun in the most powerful caliber you can and will EDC. For ammo, mid to heavy grain in any of the big names (Gold dot, HST, Ranger T, Hornady) is what you need. Everything else is just making things overly complicated.

One item often overlooked, besides living in a safe neighborhood, alarm system and making your home break in resistant is body armor. No I don't own any, but I do intend to buy a vest w/rifle plates. Wouldn't hurt to keep next to the bed with the shottie and .45. Call me crazy, call me paranoid, but if you need the firearms, you'll likely be happy you have the vest next to the bed as well.

Don't forget electronic earmuffs, that way you hear the noises you need to and save your hearing.
 
I value my life at well over a million dollars. I have yet to find any million dollar ammunition but I will post it when I do.

I have heard the "I know it's expensive but how much is your life worth" argument before. They usually say it to justify paying too much money for something.

I have a saying, "If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy buying over priced merchandise then go for it."

The only thing is... I use the same over priced Vampire killing Zombie slaying ammo that the original poster does. Why? Because I'm always looking for an edge in a fight. Maybe the difference between my 9mm hitting nothing but meat or severing a major artery is how well the round performs. It's more important to be able to shoot straight but always look for an edge in a fight.;)
 
Very nice job doing all that work. Very informative. BUT, caliber of a handgun means almost nothing in a HD role. All modern hollow point ammo made today works all about the dame. Believe it or not, a good 9mm is a more lethal gun than a 10mm !! Really? Sure, in testing by ammo engineers ar ATK (Speer, Federal) state that you can put 10 rounds into a target in the same time you can put 3.5 rounds of 45. More hits on target in the shortest time equals a more lethal handgun.

All that said, a handgun is best used to fight your way to a rifle. A 223 carbine is a thousand times better than any pistol / caliber handgun, unless you have an AR15 pistol. That would most likely be the beat HD weapon out there next to a 12 gauge shotgun.
 
A .22 LR will penetrate 9" of pine. That's enough to shoot completely through a house, or at least through two walls. The same is true for 9mm and up, including soft and hollow point ammunition. The idea is to hit what you are shooting at, because those same rounds will stop in a body which is 90% water. You still need enough penetration and power to get the job done, which translates to 400 ft-lb or so muzzle energy.

Choose a weapon and caliber you can shoot well, and practice, practice, practice. All things being equal, a heavier bullet will have greater stopping power than a lighter one, but more recoil. (No? Try knocking over a steel target or bowling pin with a 9mm, then use a .45.)
 
Last edited:
9" of pine?

Did you post 9" of pine? That seems like WAYYYY too much.... 9" of gelatin maybe.... ;)

I am a lousy person to give advice because I don't follow my own advice, why should you?

In my book, I like 17 - 9mm rounds over 8 - .45 rounds. Especially when the statistics say even the most trained shooters miss 50% of the shots they take in a gunfight.

But lately I've been carrying my 642-1 (38+P) with 5 rounds. :p

I also think more power is better than less power. I like a good .40 heavy, in case I have to shoot through a solid wood door, or a wall, or heavy clothes, or something a bad guy picked up to shield himself....

But lately I've been carrying my 642-1 (38+P) with 5 rounds. I mean have you ever carried one? It's so small and cute!!! :p

See? I don't follow my advice, I follow my heart. Love the 642. I do feel safer carrying a 9c or 3913, but right now in shorts.... the 642.
 
From my observations and learning over the years, I have never heard of anyone complaining about the real world performance of a 9 mm +P+ in 115-127 grain configuration - except for the naysayers who advocate the 147 grain - of which I've heard many more complaints. In 40 and 45, Gold Dots and Ranger Bonded are considered consistently good rounds. Some people swear by Hydra Shoks, and I don't have anything personally against them. The king of the hill in .357 magnum for years was the 125 grain semi jacket hollow point by Federal and Remington. It burst out at 1450 fps, and allegedly resulted in cracked forcing cones of many K-frame revolvers.

Regardless of bullet caliber and configuration, nothing can beat shot placement. A well placed bullet into the central nervous system will stop murderer faster than a freight train. A well placed bullet in the pump organ may take a little longer. A well placed bullet center of mass of any exposed part of the target may be all it takes to turn the tide and save your life. If you can master a 45 or 357, use that for home defense. If you are at your best with a 9, then don't knock success. If your arthritic hands won't let you handle anything hotter than a .22, but you can punch any target dead-center with a CCI Stinger or Mini Mag under stress, then don't feel under gunned.

I would stay away from anything with zombie killer on the label for defense because it might open a whole kettle of worms to upset the proceedings that will follow....
 

Latest posts

Back
Top