Ascension
Member
Will also echo this as I have a problem child early Glock 42 .380 that has a intermittent trigger reset issue.
I also will caution on a carry gun with a super light target trigger.
Competition gun for carry purpose?
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Will also echo this as I have a problem child early Glock 42 .380 that has a intermittent trigger reset issue.
I also will caution on a carry gun with a super light target trigger.
tom turner
US Veteran
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I've shot in many hundreds of handgun matches, and won over 100 of 'em in all sorts of calibers, autos and revolvers, stock and raceguns. It is all fun, and I highly recommend you compete after you get "pretty good."
Only at speed, and under the timer with lots of people watching will you even be able to know WHICH firearms will fit your hand perfectly. There is no way to know just by holding them, or by slow target practice at the range. The bullet leaving the rifled barrel will cause muzzle flip but also the rifling will cause the firearm to also twist in your hand . . . and if your grip isn't perfect you'll have a slight variation in your actual grip which will change imperceptably more and more with each shot at speed.
Suddenly you'll be missing badly and you may hear another shooter say, "Man, I don't understand this, for that gun is eating a single jagged hole in the paper at ___ yards, but now it won't hit anything. Practice all you want, but if the gun torques on you at speed that's what is happening . . . or at least a hard to fix thing! Trust me, I've been down that road with several centerfire pistols before.
TWO SUGGESTIONS . . .
1. First, get a decent target .22LR pistol. There's no torque and little recoil or loud boom . . . so you learn faster and don't develop a flinch. Ammo is super cheap and you'll wear your finger out reloading magazines for just a few bucks of shooting . . . and great, accurate shooting of thousands of rounds is necessary to lock in good (or bad) habits. Plus the .22 pistols can be super accurate for very little money.
2. For your second gun that's good enough for competition? Start shooting matches! Shooters are generally very friendly and will let you put their guns though the paces so you'll know if the fit is right. After you've shot with your new friends enough, you'll not make that huge mistake of buying something on emotion that turns out to suck.
Remember, at any price, the competition-quality firearms are the CHEAP part . . . it is the tens of thousands of rounds you'll send downrange that will be the expensive part. So, get good instruction from the beginning, buy a $15 brick of .22LR and you can put a lot of lead downrange, in a pistol which isn't that expensive that can put ten rounds of .22LR into a tiny jagged hole at 10 yards.
Mine's a trusty old Ruger MkII Target model, box stock and it still is a tackdriver. Browning also makes a modest priced .22 pistol, just get the long barrel versions!
Heck, I recommend that everyone start with a .22 pistol or revolver.
Good luck . . . now find great instruction and put some lead down range and you'll be just fine. All the best, Tom
I've shot in many hundreds of handgun matches, and won over 100 of 'em in all sorts of calibers, autos and revolvers, stock and raceguns. It is all fun, and I highly recommend you compete after you get "pretty good."
Only at speed, and under the timer with lots of people watching will you even be able to know WHICH firearms will fit your hand perfectly. There is no way to know just by holding them, or by slow target practice at the range. The bullet leaving the rifled barrel will cause muzzle flip but also the rifling will cause the firearm to also twist in your hand . . . and if your grip isn't perfect you'll have a slight variation in your actual grip which will change imperceptably more and more with each shot at speed.
Suddenly you'll be missing badly and you may hear another shooter say, "Man, I don't understand this, for that gun is eating a single jagged hole in the paper at ___ yards, but now it won't hit anything. Practice all you want, but if the gun torques on you at speed that's what is happening . . . or at least a hard to fix thing! Trust me, I've been down that road with several centerfire pistols before.
TWO SUGGESTIONS . . .
1. First, get a decent target .22LR pistol. There's no torque and little recoil or loud boom . . . so you learn faster and don't develop a flinch. Ammo is super cheap and you'll wear your finger out reloading magazines for just a few bucks of shooting . . . and great, accurate shooting of thousands of rounds is necessary to lock in good (or bad) habits. Plus the .22 pistols can be super accurate for very little money.
2. For your second gun that's good enough for competition? Start shooting matches! Shooters are generally very friendly and will let you put their guns though the paces so you'll know if the fit is right. After you've shot with your new friends enough, you'll not make that huge mistake of buying something on emotion that turns out to suck.
Remember, at any price, the competition-quality firearms are the CHEAP part . . . it is the tens of thousands of rounds you'll send downrange that will be the expensive part. So, get good instruction from the beginning, buy a $15 brick of .22LR and you can put a lot of lead downrange, in a pistol which isn't that expensive that can put ten rounds of .22LR into a tiny jagged hole at 10 yards.
Mine's a trusty old Ruger MkII Target model, box stock and it still is a tackdriver. Browning also makes a modest priced .22 pistol, just get the long barrel versions!
Heck, I recommend that everyone start with a .22 pistol or revolver.
Good luck . . . now find great instruction and put some lead down range and you'll be just fine. All the best, Tom
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Ascension
Member
While I love that light crisp trigger on the range my carry guns are all DAO or Double single. Reason is two fold. First off I carry at work openly everyday and if I ever do have to use a weapon in defense want that long DAO trigger on that 1st round.
Secondly it's just to easy to have an AD in particular as a newer shooter with a super light trigger.
My # 1 and 2 carry guns are both old 3rd gen Smiths in a 5943 DAO 9mm and a Double Single 4013 TSW .40.
I shoot very well with both and would not hesitate to recommend either but would go with the non DAO 5900 guns for a match.
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Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I've shot in many hundreds of handgun matches, and won over 100 of 'em in all sorts of calibers, autos and revolvers, stock and raceguns. It is all fun, and I highly recommend you compete after you get "pretty good."
Whoa, Tom!! Great information and advice!! I currently have a .22 Victory. I'm waiting for Volquartsen to make lefty grips (they said they're coming out right around the new year.) I stopped shooting it for a while because my knuckle tends to inadvertently flip on the safety due to my high grip, which suits me well on my M&P 9 FS. Anyway, the grips are much bigger, will fit my huge hands, and fix this problem then I can get back into the habit of holding the grip accurately and practicing good habits.
I was just so excited for the TP9 SF Elite and SFX to come out that perhaps I didn't think it all the way through. Plus for the price, you get a lot of bang for your buck with these pistols. I guess in hindsight, I wanted something different for the range besides my current pistols (mentioned above.) I thought by having the SF Elite or SFX I can enjoy it at the range and if down the road I'd like to carry or do competition, I won't have to buy another gun. I wanted to make one last purchase for 2016 and in 2017 focus solid training in classes and range time, and ammo. I'm glad I posted this thread because a lot of helpful people have backed me off the cliff, per se. Lol. Oh and I live in CT. If I ever find $15 for a brick of .22 (other than black Friday sale at Dick's or Bass Pro) I'd probably faint!Hey, thanks again for the advise and not coming across as the "Jerk who picks on the newbie for you know...being a newbie." LOL!
I live in a state where concealed carry permits are practically non-existent, but if I had a choice of only one gun for competition and carry it would be my old West German Sig P220. Not very heavy, extremely reliable, well made and way more accurate than any fixed sight service pistol should be.
I just looked it up. Looks nice! I'm fairly new to shooting and I still tense up a little with a DA pistol. I don't know why. Something about the hammer makes me question my ability to handle it. I love striker fire, but I'm sure there'll come a day when I will branch out and see what I've been missing. Lol. Thank you for sharing.
soccerguy83
Member
Three things:
Welcome to the forum! You are starting off right, asking questions and then listening to what people are giving you for advice! That's a step ahead of so many already, it's not even funny!
I didn't watch any of the videos, so I apologize if this is an inaccurate statement. I did go look at the website for the TP9 SFX and it lists it as a Single Action Only, in the pictures etc. I didn't notice a safety, the description only lists a trigger safety that looks to be similar to the LC9s. If that is indeed accurate there is NO WAY in heck I would ever consider this for anything other than being at the range.
Lastly, you currently own the M&P9 FS, why would you not want to carry that? It is smaller, lighter, and has the same capacity (depending on model). It is a perfectly capable self-defensive weapon.
Welcome to the forum! You are starting off right, asking questions and then listening to what people are giving you for advice! That's a step ahead of so many already, it's not even funny!
I didn't watch any of the videos, so I apologize if this is an inaccurate statement. I did go look at the website for the TP9 SFX and it lists it as a Single Action Only, in the pictures etc. I didn't notice a safety, the description only lists a trigger safety that looks to be similar to the LC9s. If that is indeed accurate there is NO WAY in heck I would ever consider this for anything other than being at the range.
Lastly, you currently own the M&P9 FS, why would you not want to carry that? It is smaller, lighter, and has the same capacity (depending on model). It is a perfectly capable self-defensive weapon.
Hey Soccerguy! Thank you for chiming in. Always good to hear from different people. As for the MP9, I haven't yet started carrying it, but I will once I run some defensive ammo through it and I'm confident in my ammo choice (some advice from you guys on this forum.) But although I decided to carry this pistol, I figured I'll buy the other pistol (SFX or Elite) as my last gun for the year, which would to add some variety to my collection and fun at the range. Then once I decide to switch my carry pistol, I'd have a "viable" choice to choose from instead of purchasing another handgun. Again, in hindsight I think my thought process may have been off a little, especially after others respectfully offered better guidance in this forum. But that's what I was thinking and I also will add that I was under the impression I was getting the best bang for my buck with the reliability, features, usage of the pistols and price. In my mind, I thought it was a win-win. :-/ But I wasn't 100% sure so that's why I thought I'd check with you guys to see if your thinking lines up. Lol. Clearly I was a misguided. But I'm new and I'd like to learn from other mistakes and save money in the process if I can. Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts and I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on this one (pun intended)!
soccerguy83
Member
Understandable! Once again I will reinforce that it's fantastic to see someone ask then listen to responses!
I too understand the wanting to have options, there are SOOO many out there haha. I personally have a laundry list of platforms I would like to try one day, a 1911 being high on that list, but I have other things that need to be done first.
Please keep us updated on what you end up deciding on as your next!
I too understand the wanting to have options, there are SOOO many out there haha. I personally have a laundry list of platforms I would like to try one day, a 1911 being high on that list, but I have other things that need to be done first.
Please keep us updated on what you end up deciding on as your next!
I will agree that my laundry list is getting long as well. But I also have to live in reality. Lol. But as of now, I think I slowly backed away from the cliff...which was very difficult. Lol. Thanks!
Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Is it difficult to carry legally in CT? Hoops to jump through ?
Well, after I completed my pistol's course, I immediately went and applied for my temporary permit. I filled out the application and they did a criminal background check, mental health check, finger prints, and a work history and housing check. That took about three months or more. Then they sent me my temporary permit, which I then had to take to the State Dept. and get my permanent permit. That took a day. My Utah permit (which gives me reciprocity in all but around 7 states took a little over a month and they only performed a background check and finger prints. That was way easier. But the laws here are ridiculous. Any gun you purchase here is bare bones. No more than 10 rounds (regardless of firearm), no suppressors, muzzle mods, etc. I mean, literally...BARE BONES!!! Guns are pricier, FFL charges ranges from minimum of $50-$150 and some don't even want to deal with it. Anytime a new gun comes out, we're the last to get it and we can't find mags because manufactures don't want to deal with the hassle of CT, NY, NJ, MA, and CT gun restrictions. I mean, the list goes on and on. We have THE MOST restrictions. Lol. But unlike CA, we can carry concealed. Lol. Last thing, we are a retreat state so if you shoot someone even though you were protecting yourself, there's no guarantee you won't go to jail. You have to prove that you retreated as far back as you could and you had no other choice but to pull the trigger. Oh and you'd need lots of money to prove that. It's the worst here.
AveragEd
Member
Having given my S&W E-Series 1911Sc and its Miami Classic II shoulder holster to our son, my carry piece is a 2-1/2" Model 66-4 in a Lobo Model 1 Dual Carry holster. But because of its effective caliber and lower recoil than a .45 ACP, I would consider carrying my DK PC1911 in .38 Super.
It may not meet the exact definition of a competition gun but it and my 5" PC .45 ACP are as close as I can come. I have a high-ride (I forget the brand) holster for all my 1911s and it hides well in it.
I also have a high-ride Lobo Advanced Avenger holster for my 5" 1911s and if I wear a jacket, you can hardly tell it's there. All my holsters are lined to protect the guns' finish.
Ed
It may not meet the exact definition of a competition gun but it and my 5" PC .45 ACP are as close as I can come. I have a high-ride (I forget the brand) holster for all my 1911s and it hides well in it.
I also have a high-ride Lobo Advanced Avenger holster for my 5" 1911s and if I wear a jacket, you can hardly tell it's there. All my holsters are lined to protect the guns' finish.
Ed
Check out Winchester "Train and Defend". What this is is two different ammos - one for training, and one for defense. But they are matched. Same bullet profile, same bullet weight, same velocity. The point being, you train (or prove in your gun's reliability with the ammo) using the "Train" product, then switch to the "Defend" product for carry. I have bought the Train stuff for as low as $12 per 50 (on sale). Typically, the Train is more like $15 per 50. The Defend stuff is closer to $1 per round. So the Train is not as cheap as the rock bottom 115gr range bulk ammo, but it's still reasonable, given that you are using it to prove in your pistol for the much more expensive self-defense version. With other ammos, you have to prove in your gun using the expensive stuff that you plan to carry. For self-defense ammo, plan on $1 per round for any of it. That's nothing given how little of it you carry. But proving your gun is reliable with it? now THAT's expensive! I want a couple hundred rounds through my carry gun before I trust an ammo. 300 rounds would be my minimum. That's $300 if you have to test with the real self-defense ammo. About $90 if you use Winchester Train and Defend (even cheaper if you shop around to find the Train on sale).
Of course, if the Defend variety is not good self-defense ammo, then all of this is for nothing. But the deal is that Defend is VERY GOOD self-defense ammo. Here's a video where the guy does some ballistic testing of it:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsVe1fxXLE[/ame]
I have had exceptionally good luck with this ammo. I have proven in many pistols using the train stuff. hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rounds between them all. Never had a failure. The guns (all 9mm's) I've proven in with it are: S&W Shield, H&K P30S, Keltec PF9, Glock 17. Still pending is testing it in an XD/S 9mm.
My thought on this is if you do end up shooting someone and you happen to do so in a district with an anti-self defense police department it's unlikely you'll ever see your pistol back. There goes a very expensive piece of equipment.
Certainly a lot of good information in this thread for a new shooter.
As has been mentioned more than once it wold depend on he TYPE of competition as to the practicality of using a competition handgun for carry / defensive purposes.
I shot this PC1911 in IDPA CDP for a number of years using a BladeTech Kydex holster that positioned the grip away from the body for a better / faster presentation.
I also carried it in both a Kramer IWB2 and a BladeTech Kydex that pulled the grip in closer to the body for easier concealment.
Lots of handguns used in IDPA also do double service as carry guns.
James
As has been mentioned more than once it wold depend on he TYPE of competition as to the practicality of using a competition handgun for carry / defensive purposes.
I shot this PC1911 in IDPA CDP for a number of years using a BladeTech Kydex holster that positioned the grip away from the body for a better / faster presentation.
I also carried it in both a Kramer IWB2 and a BladeTech Kydex that pulled the grip in closer to the body for easier concealment.
Lots of handguns used in IDPA also do double service as carry guns.
James
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Absolutely right. This didn't cross my mind. Good to know.
