Concealed carry in church

[watsonrg]

I attend a Catholic church in Arlington, Texas.

Beginning in 2016 the Bishop decided signs forbidding firearms should be posted. Our pastor shrugged his shoulders and explained he must follow the Bishop's order.

Following the shooting in Sutherland Springs in November, the pastor announced he had asked the local PD to conduct a security survey. One change that began on December 1 was that secondary entrances would be locked to the outside, though still available as exits. All attendees must enter through the main entrance. He said other measures were recommended but he would not be sharing those.

Today I was surprised to see a uniformed police officer on duty inside the main entrance.

The thought occurred to me perhaps it would be OK to heed the signs now.

Or maybe not.

What say you?

 

[PR24]

Not being familiar with Texas laws on CCW when & where rules, I can only speak for Arizona. Under AZ law if the signs are up and you are not Federal, state, county or municipal LE, then you are in violation. However, the decision to carry is purely up to you. The old adage: "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" may apply here.

Obviously if there's a uniformed cop there that may complicate things in the event of an incident. With that said, the hapless uniformed officer is also the BIGGEST most visible target there and the 1st to be targeted by a perp. As a police officer myself, I would have no issues with a competent citizen* carrying in church off the radar. Yea, it may be illegal...technically...but ignorance is bliss right?
[*See Early TX shootings 3 Aug 12].

God forbid there's an incident at your house of worship and you or other like minded souls take action. It would be very unlikely that the county attorney or city prosecutor in that jurisdiction would push charges on a citizen who ran to the gunfire vs. away from it. Especially in Texas. Yea, no guarantee's but that wouldn't go over well in the court of public opinion when the good guy(s) take out the bad guy. There have been plenty of god fearing people who are with him now because of some nut with a gun.

1st rule of a gunfight: HAVE A GUN.
2nd rule of a gunfight: BRING YOUR FRIENDS WITH GUNS.

Besides, how long is the church going to spring $$ for the off duty officer to be there? That adds up quick!

 

[murphydog]

It's a personal decision, when you understand the legal implications of carrying after the signs have been posted prohibiting this.

As far as the officer stationed at the front door, it's a good step, but - can the other doors be propped or forced open? What if there is an incident in the parking lot, out of view of the front door? Does he/she attend the service to deter an incident there?

Good luck in your decisions.

 

[Smoke]

I attend a Catholic church in Arlington, Texas.

Beginning in 2016 the Bishop decided signs forbidding firearms should be posted. Our pastor shrugged his shoulders and explained he must follow the Bishop's order.

Following the shooting in Sutherland Springs in November, the pastor announced he had asked the local PD to conduct a security survey. One change that began on December 1 was that secondary entrances would be locked to the outside, though still available as exits. All attendees must enter through the main entrance. He said other measures were recommended but he would not be sharing those.

Today I was surprised to see a uniformed police officer on duty inside the main entrance.

The thought occurred to me perhaps it would be OK to heed the signs now.

Or maybe not.

What say you?

Are you asking us to validate your decision to violate state law?
Romans 13?

 

[URIT]

The officer at the door will be the first to fall if some nutjob decides to cause harm to others.

That said, I'd write a letter to the Bishop and my priest stating that I will stay out of harm's way (churches under his no-gun dictate) until the ban is lifted.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I moved to Texas from Az . Here they have 2 ordinances defining carrying a firearm. 30.06 prohibits conceal carry , 30.07 prohibits open carry . The signs have to be a certain size and contain certain size letters
My advice to the op is to circulate a petition getting all the signatures he can showing favor to carry in church . If enough signatures the bishop might change his thinking . Getting caught carrying after the proper signage has been displayed can become a serious problem for the offender .

 

[jimmyj]

At every Sunday Service (3) there are five Church security persons.
#1- pastor bodyguard
#2- front door security (all other entrances secured)
#3 & #4- various positions in audience
#5- roving security inside and outside
all security persons are armed and have portable radios with ear pieces

 

[federali]

As you can't fix stupid, you must either be in compliance with local laws or find a different house of worship.

 

[vytoland]

its their church and their world.......they can do what they want......if you disagree...dont go there.....

 

[Old_Cop]

It is difficult to decide whether your personal safety is more important than an arbitrary decision by a person who is not in your pew.

 

[billwill]

The Man upstairs is not here....you are. Dying in church at the hands of a wackjob is not how I want to meet the Lord.

 

[Mahalo_.32]

Concealed is precisely that......
I can see where the Bishop is coming from, he does not want people to be all concerned with the possibility so hiring a uniformed Officer was a better choice however, for me I would continue to have the means to fight back... God has given me everything I have and with that he gave me the will to survive and the ability to protect others.

 

[watsonrg]

At every Sunday Service (3) there are five Church security persons.
#1- pastor bodyguard
#2- front door security (all other entrances secured)
#3 & #4- various positions in audience
#5- roving security inside and outside
all security persons are armed and have portable radios with ear pieces

It might well be there is more security in place (plainclothes throughout the church) that I'm not aware of.

Years ago following the incident in Denver I happened to be a member of my parish pastoral council. I recommended the pastor encourage parishioners who also were police officers to carry and act as ushers. He had good access as he was also chaplain to the local PD.

No one else on the council agreed.

But of course this was in Illinois, suburban Chicago.

 

[SMSgt]

I, alone, am responsible for my self defense. If it means never entering a church because the church decides otherwise, so be it.

 

[watsonrg]

Are you asking us to validate your decision to violate state law?
Romans 13?

Not at all. No validation required.

Say, how did that work out for St. Paul?

Imprisoned and beheaded by those same Roman authorities wasn't he?

st paul's death - Bing

 

[mauser9]

If everyone stops attending the church you will be surprised how quick that rule will be rescinded!!

 

[BC38]

I'd ask the Bishop if in Luke 22:36 when the good Lord was sending his disciples out into the world, and he instructed them to get a sword to take with them - even if they had to sell their overcoat to get one - does the Bishop think the Lord meant for them to then leave that sword at home?

 

[Protected One]

What is the Bishops plan if a shooter decides to ignore the signs?

 

[photoman]

It's highly likely the Bishop is just following the orders of the next man up the chain of command and it's not likely you or anyone else there is going to change that. You just have to decide what you are going to do on your own. No one here can help you with that.

 

[DevilDog72]

If the church does not display the proper signage then I would continue to protect myself and others by having my firearm with me. If they find out that you are armed all they can do is ask you to leave.
Arlington PD is a good force...my daughter and daughter-n-law are on that force, that said, that officer at the door is the first target for the BG.