Concealed Carry versus the Post Office

[straightshooter1]

Bill

Would you ask one of these guys what the authority to arrest in the parking lot is?

It sure isn't found in that part of the USC and I have researched it (admittedly about 3 years ago) and found nothing.

It may be that there's some other part that I missed or that is new. Our signs here refer only to the facility (building).

I suspect, but would like to be sure, that they have "heard" or been told by "someone" that the parking lot is a no-no.

Bob

 

[Smitty500Mag]

Originally posted by bill_in_TX:
Smitty is correct about the sign -- at least the ones around Houston. It specifically cites the parking lot(s) as well as the building.

It's not just in Houston I also read the sign on the wall of the post office in McDonough, GA last Saturday and it cited the property as well as the building.

Smitty

 

[bill_in_TX]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
Bill

Would you ask one of these guys what the authority to arrest in the parking lot is?

It sure isn't found in that part of the USC and I have researched it (admittedly about 3 years ago) and found nothing.

It may be that there's some other part that I missed or that is new. Our signs here refer only to the facility (building).

I suspect, but would like to be sure, that they have "heard" or been told by "someone" that the parking lot is a no-no.

Bob

I'll gladly asked the guy when I see him -- if I remember. I only see him when he comes to the range with students to do their shooting part of the TX CHL qualification, so it's hit or miss.

My suspicion is that the parking lot thing is really aimed at employees after some of the postal shootings. However, because the Postal union is so strong the wording was probably genralized to avoid more postal conflicts.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

I'm sure those signs and policies have stopped a lot of shooters bent on murder.

 

[DougE]

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I'm sure those signs and policies have stopped a lot of shooters bent on murder.

+1
These policies insure the that the only ones armed in such places are the criminals. Those of us that are law abiding are no danger to anyone no matter where we are carrying.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I'm sure those signs and policies have stopped a lot of shooters bent on murder.

+2

 

[fitz]

I think the law cited is quite clear. Read 18 USC 930 d3 again:

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Now, if I am out hunting for the day and need to mail a letter, and am legally open carrying a revolver for the purpose of that hunt, it would seem clear that this is specifically covered here. It makes perfect sense that someone licensed in their state to CCW is covered under the "other lawful purposes".

I carry concealed everywhere, including the Post Office, except where expressly forbidden by law. In New Hampshire, there is only one place, and that is a courthouse. Period.

 

[jungleman]

Please notice secton H. I have never been in a posted post office. I also do not want to be the test case
Remember some of the Supreme Court Judges do not believe in the Constitution.

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
How Current is This? (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be

 

[wjh2657]

I live two miles from my post office. I make the trip to the post office a special trip. The EDC is at the house, I go to post office, when I return I put EDC back on.

It isn't worth losing the house and my right to carry a gun to try to win an argument with the post office on whether I can wear a gun inside their building!

I have a very good friend, a real straight up veteran citizen type, who had a deactivated Browning MG, certified by ATF folks. He showed up at a reenactment with it and ended up doing two years in federal pen. No guns now for the rest of his life, lost business, lost house, and lost wife. He and lawyer still insist he was right, but none of the above is going to come back. He was refused appeal by appellate court.

In Feds vs you, it doesn't matter what argument you have : Feds are right/You are wrong. I'll keep my house and guns. Gun stays home when I go to Post Office.

 

[Deltaboy]

In Texas you can buy stamps at the Grocery Store and Wal-mart. We also have a private shipping center that is gun friendly that I use.

Not worth the hassel with the Feds.

 

[straightshooter1]

First of all, I don't carry in a Post Office. It was hard at first, and I kept forgetting and having to walk back to the car, since as a LEO and a Prosecutor, I could. But, I learned.

That said, I try to use one of two fairly convenient contract stations. They aren't owned or leased by the Federal Government and the people who sell money orders, stamps, etc. don't work for the government. They work for the store, i.e. ACE Hardware. I know because I made it a point to inquire and follow up to be sure.

Bob

 

[photoman]

This is always a lively topic...

1. The sign relates to federal rules and regulations. 39CFR Ch.1 Part 232.1

2. Violation of the regulation is not a felony. The maximum fine is not more than $50 and imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. 39CFR Ch.1 Part 232.1 (p)(2) 07-01-2007

3. The parking lot IS covered under these rules and regulations. 39CFR Ch.1 Part 232.1 (a)

Authority for 39CFR Ch.1 Part 232.1 is based on 18 USC 13, 3061; 21 USC 802, 844; 39 USC 401, 403 (b)B3), 404 (a)(7), 1201(2)

 

[exSun]

I've seen this sign for a number of years, in a number of Post Offices. It has annoyed me greatly, as it appears to annoy a great many of this forum's readers. On occasion, I've sent an email or two to my state's senators, though admittedly neither they nor their staffs have replied.

Maybe if all the annoyed readers would do the same, we might get a change in the rules, rather like the change to the rules about carry in National Parks.

I know it's a long shot, but it only takes a few minutes by email.

I would love to see a shift in the law to state that you may only be disarmed by the government when it's necessary for the function of government, they take steps to effectively enforce the disarming (like metal scanners), they take steps to protect the disarmed, and (most importantly) they assume a standard of "strict liability" for harm caused to the disarmed by any failure of the protection.

Again, it's a long shot - but then I never thought the Soviet Union would fold, either.

Chris

 

[BOOM-BOOM]

In Ohio you are not allowed to carry weapons in any, FEDREAL, STATE, COUNTY OR CITY buildings....PERIOD.. if there is a sign or not

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by BOOM-BOOM:
In Ohio you are not allowed to carry weapons in any, FEDREAL, STATE, COUNTY OR CITY buildings....PERIOD.. if there is a sign or not

Highway rest stops are the exception

 

[BOOM-BOOM]

YES, As of the signing of the castle doctrine.. also to pick you're kids from school