Confederate Memorial Day

[don5]

I found out this year that, way back on my mom's side of the family, my ancestor fought for the confederacy with Stonewall Jackson. I told my son "Aha, I knew it! That explains why I always root for the underdog, I don't run from any fight and I don't believe everything I hear!"

 

[manyguns]

The institution of slavery was continually passed over by politicians hoping against hope that it would fade away. Unfortunately the South continues to demand the expansion of slavery to the territories as they became states. They insisted that the north cooperate with them in retuning run away slaves by mandate and could force any citizen to participate in pursuit of fugitive slaves.
The war ended up being fought by southern poor people who did not own slaves as the wealthy slave owners hired replacements for themselves in the draft. Our nations founders could not find a way to eliminate slavery in their time and the civil war was the unfortunate result of eighty years of passing the buck combined with changes of peoples perceptions concerning the "peculiar" institution.
The politics of the period were just as dirty and self centered as any other time in our history.

 

[1morethan8]

I think the real reason for the war is Southern people didn't want the Federal Government to dictate their control over them as to what they could or couldn't do... and it hasn't changed much.

 

[Johnny_w]

Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states' rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina's secession convention adopted a "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union." It noted "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery" and protested that Northern states had failed to "fulfill their constitutional obligations" by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states' rights, birthed the Civil War.

 

[1morethan8]

"The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy."

Sounds like "states rights" was also an issue?

 

[Johnny_w]

South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed "slavery transit." In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina's delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery.
The South's opposition to states' rights is not surprising. Until the Civil War, Southern presidents and lawmakers had dominated the federal government. The people in power in Washington always oppose states' rights. Doing so preserves their own.

If you consider the south trying to limit northern states rights a states right issue, then yes, states rights were a factor.

 

[redneckemt]

Study the diaries, journals, letters, memoirs and all the other papers on the day to day lives of the Southern Men. From Stonewall Jackson down to the lowest private. At the time of the Civil War a mans loyalty was to his State. And the Southern States were loyal to each other. Lincoln threatened and then did call for Volunteers to put down the rebellion in the Southern States. He threatened Friends, Neighbors, and Kin folk.

Slavery may have been the gasoline but Lincoln's mouth is the match that lit the fire and the winds that spread the flames.

 

[manyguns]

A northern president with northern sympathies was all that had taken place when the rebellion began. Lincoln had not even been inaugurated yet. The people of the south suffered from very poor political leadership. The interests of the few landed people put the well being of everyone else at risk. The pro slavery "fire eaters" had no vision for winning a war. The south lacked industry, infrastructure, an army or a navy. They destroyed their own future. Europe had already done away with slavery and the handwriting was on the wall. They chose to press forward with something that could no longer be justified or accepted at that time. Political will is usually the cause of most wars. They refused to count the cost before they went forward.

 

[1morethan8]

Well.. the war did prove the Yankees couldn't shoot worth a darn!!

 

[Johnny_w]

Remind me who won that war?
I'm sure lots of Germans thought they were fighting for good reasons in WW2. I'm sure if you read their diaries, journals, letters, memoirs and all the other papers on the day to day lives.....
They were on the wrong side, personal reasons be damned. In both cases the side of justice and right won.
I'm sure I must be reading or interpreting some of these messages wrong. It almost sounds like some of them are defending or dismissing slavery. If so I apologize. But I see slavery as one of Americas greatest missteps. One of the few things we should truly be ashamed of.
Now let's chat about how we treated the indigenous peoples of North America.

 

[1morethan8]

Remind me who won that war?

To be "reminded" you only need to look at who's president...
or change the words "slave states" to "legal gun states" in the above post in this thread.

"But the ghost of Lee can still see us fight the civil war!"

 

[redneckemt]

Remind me who won that war?
I'm sure lots of Germans thought they were fighting for good reasons in WW2. I'm sure if you read their diaries, journals, letters, memoirs and all the other papers on the day to day lives.....
They were on the wrong side, personal reasons be damned. In both cases the side of justice and right won.
I'm sure I must be reading or interpreting some of these messages wrong. It almost sounds like some of them are defending or dismissing slavery. If so I apologize. But I see slavery as one of Americas greatest missteps. One of the few things we should truly be ashamed of.
Now let's chat about how we treated the indigenous peoples of North America.

Lincoln the Great Emancipator only freed the slaves in the Southern States.

Oh and the war wasn't won by the Yankees industry or man power. Or any factor the North might have had.
The war was lost due to fate /The hand of the almighty which ever you might choose.

Failure of the Southern Army to press the victory at the First Battle of Manasas (Bull Run)
Failure to press the Victory of the first and 2nd day at Shiloh
Surrender of Fort Donaldson
Appointment of Braxton Bragg to Command the Army of Tennessee (Ol Joe was much beloved)
Failure to Press the Victory at Chickamaga.
Failure to keep fighting defensive around Atlanta.
Allowing J.E.B. Stuart to remain in Command of the Cavalry forces of the Army of Northern Va.
The Death of Stonewall Jackson at the hands of friendly forces.
Failure to move to the hights on the First Day of Gettysburg
Failure of JEB Stuart to provide intelligence before Gettysburg
Failure to Block the Franklin Pike between Columbia and Franklin Tn. By the Army of Tn. Thus allowing the link up of two Yankee Armys.
Failure to foward General Patrick Cleiburns idea of allowing African Americans to serve the South. (On a large Scale. Forrest s personal escort was mostly African American. )

We out fought the Yankees. Our Generals ran circles out everyone the Yankees had. Grant was a butcher. He killed more of his men than he did ours. George Armstrong Custer was a fan of Grants tactics. And look how that turned out.

We lost too the hand of fate.

Revisionist be damned.


Hail the Victorious Dead.

 

[Johnny_w]

 

[1morethan8]

Guess the Rebs thought it was a fair fight.. they were only outnumbered 2 to 1!

Out of the 10 costliest battles of the Civil War the Confederacy only outnumber the Union in one battle..

Chickamauga
Confederate Forces Engaged: 66,326
Union Forces Engaged: 58,222
Winner: Confederacy

Out of the other nine they were outnumbered and yet still won 3 battles and 2 other battles were inconclusive.

When I said the Yanks couldn't shoot.. maybe I should have said that the Rebs could!?

Check-out these numbers...

Battle of Chancellorsville
Date: May 1-4, 1863
Location: Virginia
Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee
Union Commander: Joseph Hooker
Confederate Forces Engaged: 60,892
Union Forces Engaged: 133,868
Winner: Confederacy
Casualties: 30,099 (17,278 Union and 12,821 Confederate)

.. they were ONLY outnumbered by 72,976 soldiers!

The Ten Costliest Battles of the Civil War (Data)

 

[Cyrano]

Remind me who won that war?
.

I tell my southron friends that the Union actually lost the war. We were forced to keep the states of the Confederacy, and they've been nothing but a drag on the rest of the country ever since, in every way you can imagine.

 

[1morethan8]

I tell my southron friends that the Union actually lost the war. We were forced to keep the states of the Confederacy, and they've been nothing but a drag on the rest of the country ever since, in every way you can imagine.

You say this and your location is "Texas"?

I think I know where the "drag" part comes from?

 

[gm272gs]

The war was over, 149 years ago.
We're all Americans.
It's good to be an American.

 

[ditrina]

The war was over, 149 years ago.
We're all Americans.
It's good to be an American.

And let that be the last word..