First time firing my 360 PD bad experience

[tygar]

Hi everyone, I thought I'd go to the range yesterday and try out my 360 PD, and give it a good test. So I packed up my stuff and headed out. Going to try out 38 special, and 357 mag. Started out with 38 special, fired 15 rounds beautiful, great so I loaded the cylinder with 357 140 grain Buffalo Bore heavy load, so here goes boom and said to myself I'm not doing that again. Okay went to open the cylinder and can't guns completely locked up.so l got the range manager and asked for help not knowing what's going on, thought maybe a round jumped its crimping and jammed. So he says he'll get someone else guy, comes over and says he'll get someone else's now going on my third person and I'm waiting with a hot pistol still jammed. Third person says he has to take to the back, me waiting what happened. Nice guy comes back and got it open, shows me the case looks good then shows me the adjacent round bullet jumped the case by pretty much. Also shows me the brass split about 3/8 to 1/2" . And also shows me that the cylinder has cracked and there's a star arm missing on the extractor. 1 more thing theirs a scratch on the cylinder side probably getting it open. I did call S&W to start a warranty claim I have to send it to them. Never heard anything like this, any thoughts. Some Pic's, RayView attachment 790427View attachment 790430View attachment 790431View attachment 790432
View attachment 790428

Got this used revolver on Lay-A-Way at my LGS. Hope I have better luck my first range trip with it.
View attachment 790529View attachment 790530

Hi. I also had a problem with my 360! Did the same thing, started with 38s, went to hot 38s, went to mild 357s & then a little hotter 125s at 1400, & the cylinder locked up! What happened is that on recoil some how the cylinder stop dropped & allowed the cylinder to jump a little forward, so you couldn't pull the trigger. Called S&W & they blew me off. I stripped it again & checked all the parts & it was fine so I shot more rounds. Over time I put lots of rounds including fairly hot 357s & haven't had any more problems even with 14-1500 125s. But....when I carry it as aback up or in the pocket for a store run, I use the Underwood 125 +P 38s at 1250, just in case. Also, you have some room if you have a bullet jump, with the shorter case. Like I said, after the first time, no problem, but once for a gun you carry is "once" to many. That's why when I carry a 357 I carry my 3" M60! It shoots everything!

 

[Law-dog]

I absolutely applaud everyone's very supporting responses but no one is putting the responsibility where the responsibility is due. And it need to be said. Most of my posts are of a light-hearted nature, but not today.

malph said:
"Buffalo Bore may not be over pressure but its pushed to the edge. Some say to the edge, others say sometimes a little over.
It's not something I'd consider shooting out of a scandium j frame. That's asking a lot of that little gun."

ZephyrR1 said:
"I wasn't planning on making a habit of it. I thought it could take it."

ZephyrR1 said:
"And it sure split the casing now I'm scared to shoot the thing. Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

Interesting, is he a fool or is he a nice guy? You wrote in the beginning of the post:

ZephyrR1 said:
"So l got the range manager and asked for help not knowing what's going on, thought maybe a round jumped its crimping and jammed. So he says he'll get someone else guy, comes over and says he'll get someone else's now going on my third person and I'm waiting with a hot pistol still jammed. Third person says he has to take to the back, me waiting what happened. Nice guy comes back and got it open, shows me the case looks good then shows me the adjacent round bullet jumped the case by pretty much."

You asked for help to safely clear the jammed revolver. A jam you caused by using the wrong ammo in the wrong revolver. The "third person" did clear your revolver for you, as you stated you did "not know what was going on." The "third person/nice guy"did so at your request.

People have expressed on this forum why people aren't willing to help others in this day and age. Here is the answer. ZephyrR1 asked for help with his revolver at the range, then wines there is a scratch on it. Ask for help, then bites the hand that is helping him. Then he has the audacity to ask the forum:
"Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

The only fool in this situation is you ZephyrR1.

Smith & Wesson is not to blame for your broken revolver.
Tim Sundles and Buffalo Bore are not to blame for your broken revolver.
The range you shot in is not to blame for your broken revolver.

Don't bother to contact these entities as many in this post suggested.

You are to blame for your broken revolver.

Taking responsibility for one's actions is not a new concept.

You even try to shift the blame on the "clerk" who supposedly just gave you the Buffalo Bore load without asking for them. I smelled a rat the moment I read it.

ZephyrR1
"When I purchased it I asked for 357 for my pistola, I know buffalo bore quality just thought its okay as 140 grain not less than 120 chalk up to experience. "

Did you read the disclaimer on the box?

Yet later in the post, you admit you had knowledge the loading was hot and you thought the gun "could take it."

You were wrong! The gun could not take it and that ammo wasn't meant for any revolver not of all steel construction.

Someone wrote "I hope Smith and Wesson takes care of you."

I don't.

ZephyrR1 writes:
"Thanks I'll heed your suggestions much needed."

Here is my suggestion:
I suggest you never pick up a handgun again. You have proven though your own words and reckless actions, you are dangerous and a danger to others (at the range) when handling firearms. Your ignorance and disregard for warning labels caused severe damage to your firearm and could have caused harm to others at the range. You have proven to the members of this forum and anyone who reads this post that firearms are not for everyone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pretty harsh words. Maybe some legal advice is softer. You have been beat up enough, I will not do that, but maybe we all can learn from your experience, especially in those cases where we all like tiny guns but want grizzly bear performance. This is important stuff and could be dangerous.

First, the guy who makes ammo is required to load it safely. They sell lots without incident, I see no claim there.

Second the ammo company is required to give notice about what guns it is intended for and any limitations. There are several including some about bullet weight and steel and light weight guns. I see no claim there.

And here is where they are "off the hook" they specifically tell potential buyers not to fire these in any aluminum guns. Scandium guns are 2-3% scandium, maybe, and 98% aluminum, it is a hardener, trade secret stuff. Here is their notice. I did not highlight that, Buffalo Bore did.

""""""This load is the typical barn-burning, turbocharged, Buffalo Bore type HEAVY 357 Mag. load and as such, should only be used in revolvers made of all steel. It should not be fired in a lightweight, alloy framed or cylindered revolver. Feel free to use it in ANY/ALL 357 mag. chambered rifles and all steel revolvers/handguns.""""""

Third there is the issue of the locked up gun. When you ask a good Samaritan to pull you out of the mud, and they pull your bumper off of your car or truck, they are not liable. In fact, many states have special laws that protect them when somebody is in need and a stranger attempts to help. Even unconscious people cannot usually sue somebody who tried to save them in an accident.

Fourth, there is also a thing called privity. In this case it means for you to place the blame on them, there must be some contract or relationship that spelled out what you asked them to do, before you gave them your gun. You asked for help and did not stop them from getting other people to help. I see no claim there. I do agree with others, the more proper way is to put a rod down the barrel and try to tap out any obstruction. Tapping the ejection rod with a wooden mallet is also a recognized method of removing any stuck rounds, after the action is open, perhaps they hit it too hard or used a metal hammer, we do not know. That said, there is another legal concept at play, called assumption of risk. You gave your gun to a stranger and even let him and others take it out of sight, you assumed the risk of any related damage. I see no claim here.

Fifth, I commend you for being honest and explaining to Smith and Wesson exactly what happened. Many people would lie and try to scam them into replacing the gun. I do believe that the ammo did not break off the star, I think the guy did so when he hammered out the empty cases that had jumped forward, but that really does not matter. The bullets jumped forward as most would predict. There is just that physics thing that does not like lightweight bullets going fast in lightweight handguns.

Bottom line, in my view is you did not notice the information on-line that says this ammo should never be used in small guns not made of steel. And that is the proximate cause of the problem. Smith and Wesson may very well fix the gun or give you a new one, since you are honest, if they do so that would be great. Did you look in the owner's manual for that gun? I am curious if they address that issue.

I also have another pet peeve on matters like this. The gun store sales person should have known, if he knew what gun it was intended for...well, no sales person at a gun counter is expected to be that knowledgeable, we gun people just "think" they should be experts. The guy behind the gun counter at Bass Pro, often, is the most clueless guy in the room, just saying.

Hope it works out for you and hope others have learned, I have. Just consider it one of life's lessons. I have lots of scars to show mistakes I have made, we all do. Keep the faith.

 

[Law-dog]

Hi. I also had a problem with my 360! Did the same thing, started with 38s, went to hot 38s, went to mild 357s & then a little hotter 125s at 1400, & the cylinder locked up! What happened is that on recoil some how the cylinder stop dropped & allowed the cylinder to jump a little forward, so you couldn't pull the trigger. Called S&W & they blew me off. I stripped it again & checked all the parts & it was fine so I shot more rounds. Over time I put lots of rounds including fairly hot 357s & haven't had any more problems even with 14-1500 125s. But....when I carry it as aback up or in the pocket for a store run, I use the Underwood 125 +P 38s at 1250, just in case. Also, you have some room if you have a bullet jump, with the shorter case. Like I said, after the first time, no problem, but once for a gun you carry is "once" to many. That's why when I carry a 357 I carry my 3" M60! It shoots everything!

Looks like you proved exactly what Buffalo Bore says about jumping crimp. That is pretty predictable a I have stated on here several times. I have a suggestion if you will be doing that in the future.

Work on your grip strength and try rigid shooting gloves. The little guns are light and with a stronger grip, not so likely to jump crimp. When a person cannot hold them steady, the muzzle rises quite a bit and the crimp is a weak point.

Or just shoot them in steel guns like the ammo maker says. Just a thought. I finally decided that if I really needed more power, I can just use that 2.5 inch gun already chambers in 44 mag, it works really well and has nearly twice the 357 mag power when coming out of those 1 7/8 o 2.5 inch guns.

Just a thought.




From Buffalo Bore: These are about 1,400 fps in a 2 inch gun. They use the code word, "all steel" as the metal these guns are made from.



F

 

[413Maxwedge]

Law Dog said it very succinctly but for the rest of us that don't want to read a novel on our toilet break...

Lay off the OP. It's not his fault. He bought his first .357 revolver and the salesman sold him a box of hot ammo for it. Live and learn. Chastising him for not doing an exhaustive internet search doesnt help. He listened to the salesman.

I blame S&W for following the "latest and greatest" lightweight craze. Just use steel cylinders so your gun's will be safe and reliable. Ti cylinders are not worth the issues they bring. Erosion from common light weight bullets. Damage from hot (but common) ammo. Damage from common cleaning products. Difficult extractions. Not worth a couple ounces of weight on an already very light weight gun.

 

[ZephyrR1]

I absolutely applaud everyone's very supporting responses but no one is putting the responsibility where the responsibility is due. And it need to be said. Most of my posts are of a light-hearted nature, but not today.

malph said:
"Buffalo Bore may not be over pressure but its pushed to the edge. Some say to the edge, others say sometimes a little over.
It's not something I'd consider shooting out of a scandium j frame. That's asking a lot of that little gun."

ZephyrR1 said:
"I wasn't planning on making a habit of it. I thought it could take it."

ZephyrR1 said:
"And it sure split the casing now I'm scared to shoot the thing. Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

Interesting, is he a fool or is he a nice guy? You wrote in the beginning of the post:

ZephyrR1 said:
"So l got the range manager and asked for help not knowing what's going on, thought maybe a round jumped its crimping and jammed. So he says he'll get someone else guy, comes over and says he'll get someone else's now going on my third person and I'm waiting with a hot pistol still jammed. Third person says he has to take to the back, me waiting what happened. Nice guy comes back and got it open, shows me the case looks good then shows me the adjacent round bullet jumped the case by pretty much."

You asked for help to safely clear the jammed revolver. A jam you caused by using the wrong ammo in the wrong revolver. The "third person" did clear your revolver for you, as you stated you did "not know what was going on." The "third person/nice guy"did so at your request.

People have expressed on this forum why people aren't willing to help others in this day and age. Here is the answer. ZephyrR1 asked for help with his revolver at the range, then wines there is a scratch on it. Ask for help, then bites the hand that is helping him. Then he has the audacity to ask the forum:
"Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

The only fool in this situation is you ZephyrR1.

Smith & Wesson is not to blame for your broken revolver.
Tim Sundles and Buffalo Bore are not to blame for your broken revolver.
The range you shot in is not to blame for your broken revolver.

Don't bother to contact these entities as many in this post suggested.

You are to blame for your broken revolver.

Taking responsibility for one's actions is not a new concept.

You even try to shift the blame on the "clerk" who supposedly just gave you the Buffalo Bore load without asking for them. I smelled a rat the moment I read it.

ZephyrR1
"When I purchased it I asked for 357 for my pistola, I know buffalo bore quality just thought its okay as 140 grain not less than 120 chalk up to experience. "

Did you read the disclaimer on the box?

Yet later in the post, you admit you had knowledge the loading was hot and you thought the gun "could take it."

You were wrong! The gun could not take it and that ammo wasn't meant for any revolver not of all steel construction.

Someone wrote "I hope Smith and Wesson takes care of you."

I don't.

ZephyrR1 writes:
"Thanks I'll heed your suggestions much needed."

Here is my suggestion:
I suggest you never pick up a handgun again. You have proven though your own words and reckless actions, you are dangerous and a danger to others (at the range) when handling firearms. Your ignorance and disregard for warning labels caused severe damage to your firearm and could have caused harm to others at the range. You have proven to the members of this forum and anyone who reads this post that firearms are not for everyone.

What a POS you are enough said

 

[ZephyrR1]

thanks Everyone, for your support and knowledge.
I have to say I would rather this happen the way it did, than happen in a dire need. I purchased my 360 out faith in S&W , I know nothing about Ballistics or nor do I want to know. Again trusted S&W to do their work, I paid good money for this 360, yes I was attracted to the light weight. Sorry for those who feel like I should have known better. For me it's not a hobby only self defense and headed to indoor range to test my new 360 I had no intention to ever go back nor to load ever again 357 I wanted to make sure it fired, and give my son as he revolvers for 357. Again 1 round 357 and jammed and cracked the adjacent round I was told the cylinder was cracked. I do not see it. I do have a shipping label for Smith Wesson and I will send it there and see what it does. I don't feel. I need to take the blame but I can live without it. I should've brought another piece instead of Smith Wesson, I guess I have no more faith in this pistol until Smith & Wesson proves it to be safe to me. I'll probably never fired it again and probably look for something else as I still need a self-defense firearm. I do have other guns, but they are heavy and hard for me to carry around thanks everybody for listening to my rant. I thought I'd come here for help and for the most part everybody's been knowledgeable and welcoming thanks again, Ray

 

[Well Armed]

Law Dog said it very succinctly but for the rest of us that don't want to read a novel on our toilet break...

Lay off the OP. It's not his fault. He bought his first .357 revolver and the salesman sold him a box of hot ammo for it. Live and learn. Chastising him for not doing an exhaustive internet search doesnt help. He listened to the salesman.

I blame S&W for following the "latest and greatest" lightweight craze. Just use steel cylinders so your gun's will be safe and reliable. Ti cylinders are not worth the issues they bring. Erosion from common light weight bullets. Damage from hot (but common) ammo. Damage from common cleaning products. Difficult extractions. Not worth a couple ounces of weight on an already very light weight gun.

S&W, Taurus, Ruger, etc have made similar types of light weight revolvers going back as far as several decades ago. It's not exactly anything "lastest or greatest."

It's not anymore's fault but maybe the OP's, but it's an understandable mistake for a newbie. It happens. I'd be harder on him if he was like most people who avoid any accountability like the plague, but that's not what he has done.

As far as S&W and exotic metal revolvers are concerned, they are selling a product that people want with features people want. The ammo company in question and S&W has information out there about what's safe and not safe.

The revolvers are perfectly safe when used according to the revolver and ammo specifications. Heck, even aluminum frame revolvers and semiautos pistols can also break if the manufacturer's specs are ignore, e.g., shooting 40 S&W or other hotter ammo in unsupported barrels. Millions of people shouldn't be deprived because 0.0001% of people had a misfortunate accident.

 

[Well Armed]

Law Dog said it very succinctly but for the rest of us that don't want to read a novel on our toilet break...

Lay off the OP. It's not his fault. He bought his first .357 revolver and the salesman sold him a box of hot ammo for it. Live and learn. Chastising him for not doing an exhaustive internet search doesnt help. He listened to the salesman.

I blame S&W for following the "latest and greatest" lightweight craze. Just use steel cylinders so your gun's will be safe and reliable. Ti cylinders are not worth the issues they bring. Erosion from common light weight bullets. Damage from hot (but common) ammo. Damage from common cleaning products. Difficult extractions. Not worth a couple ounces of weight on an already very light weight gun.

It's not anyone's fault but maybe the OP's, but it's an understandable mistake for a newbie. As far as S&W and exotic metal revolvers are concerned, they are selling a product that people want with features people want. The ammo company in question and S&W has information out there about what's safe and not safe.

The revolvers are perfectly safe when used according to the revolver and ammo specifications. Heck, even aluminum frame revolvers and semiautos pistols can also break if the manufacturer's specs are ignore, e.g., shooting 40 S&W or other hotter ammo in unsupported barrels. Millions of people shouldn't be deprived because 0.0001% of people had a misfortunate accident.

 

[Furrball]

What a POS you are enough said

Seriously. You have to be a troll.

 

[bph9]

One thing not mentioned is that many people still handload ammo and it looks like a scandium alloy and titanium revolver is not the best revolver to use if you plan on shooting a lot of hot handloads since obviously this type of revolver could not even handle hot factory ammo let alone a person's handloads.

Light weight scandium alloy and titanium revolvers obviously mean lightly loaded ammo too.

In the past back in the 70's I fired some very heavy loads out of a Smith & Wesson .38 model 49 Bodyguard revolver and never had a problem and that was before Smith even beefed up this design. Of course it was the all steel model not the aluminum framed model.