Cop Baiting

[Kensterfly]

Ya Know, I'm all for the 2A and support anyone's right to carry under your local/state laws. But I have a problem with people who intentionally go out into the public with the sole purpose of drawing attention to the themselves.

I stumbled onto a bunch of YouTube videos showing guys walking down residential streets with an "assault type" rifle or a pack of 20 something aged girls cruising Walmart with open carry. Naturally, someone is going to call the police. Even the most understanding and supportive cop will get a bit perturbed by someone out to be a YouTube star and refusing to give an I.D., baiting the cop with his 2A chant.

Another guys likes to go through Border Patrol checks with a dozen cameras mounted all over his little car and refuses to answer a simple question "Are you an American Citizen?" He tries to stir up the Officers until they either arrest him or just waive him through out of frustration because the idiot has backed up traffic at the checkpoint.

Still another idiot was walking just outside the Texas State Capitol grounds with a high powered rifle. Naturally, he had a film crew with him. They all were trying to provoke the State Troopers into arresting them for "exercising their rights under the Second Amendment."

Police Officer and Border Patrol are not our enemies. Walking around spooking the public makes their jobs harder. Someone calls it in and they have to investigate. "Disturbing the Peace" is a legitimate charge for these jokers, in my opinion. Such actions harm us all in the eyes of the public and ties up police resources that could be better utilized.

Why do people feel this is necessary?

 

[gregintenn]

Although these people do not shed a good light on us all as second amendment supporters, much of the frustration the LEOs experience is quite frankly due to their ignorance of the laws they are employed to enforce and insufficient training and supervision.

Some people just need a good whippin'. These folks who do this for attention are definitely among them. Some LEOs should be better trained than they are, but there has to be a more civil way to approach this problem.

We have a local guy here in Middle Tennessee who does this. His exploits are known far and wide, and he is roundly despised by most everyone who's ever met him. The bad part is that he knows our laws better than pretty much anyone else.

 

[Kensterfly]

Some cops were very professional and unphased. Others were out of their league when debating the law. Several were just, rightfully, ticked off to get called to deal with these ********.

 

[williamlayton]

The boy that cry's wolf will eventually come home with his arse chewed off.
Blessings

 

[Hodgin]

I've watched a bunch of those videos. Although there are situations were the cops have not responded in a professional manner, the vast majority seem to just want to do their job.

I know a couple of cops from the range and I know they are supporters of carry laws. However, if they receive a call about someone openly carrying in a place where you don't normally see it, I suspect they will check it out. There's alot of downside risk to them not responding if something bad happens afterwards.

The time to complain about treatment by a cop is not while things are going on. Too much tension. I'd call a supervisor later to see if I could get things clarified.

 

[feralmerril]

People hate authority. When I was a guard it happened some too. Once I had a detail where I had to open some doors for the incoming shift and on that post I probley let roughly 1,500 people through that were lined up enmass all in about the first 10 minuets. I was expected to check all badges. I noticed a guy that I was pretty sure didnt show his badge but as he picked the far side of a pressed mess of employes storming in as soon as I opened the "chute", I figured I would watch for him the next morning. Yup he tried it again. This time I cut him out of the herd. He claimed he had showed me his badge and I knew he hadnt. I probley let 500 people in with out checking their badges while we were nose to nose arguing about it. Finally he dug out his badge and started to enter. I wouldnt let him. It came to me calling our chief at a busy time on the phone. The chief listened to me and then told me to just let him in. I was mad and told the chief, "If you want to let him in, come down here and YOU let him in, I aint going to!" The chief came down to my post and told the guy to come in. He left and he nor I said a word to each other about it! The funny thing was later the employee became a friend. A certain percentage of people will try you out! Another time in another area a captain came to my post and was BS`ing with me as again I was checking heavy foot traffic badges. This one guy got maybe 30 yards in through the gate, turned around, walked back to us and said, "Officer, I forgot to show you my badge!" I just laughed at him and said, NO, you showed it or you wouldnt have got in, but nice try anyway." I knew his game, try to make me look derelict of my job to the captain. The captain just laughed, got in his car and drove off. (Ya know, I aint real sure I seen it!)

 

[shouldazagged]

That behavior is stupid and detrimental to our Second Amendment cause. Want to see more anti-gunners, or just people who don't understand the issue, yammering for restrictive laws to be pushed through? Keep showing your butt with a camera crew along to be sure it's all over YouTube.

I treasure my 2A rights, and it irritates me to see showboating provocateurs stirring manure and jeopardizing them. Sure, carry openly if you wish, it's your right to do so. I don't do it myself, but I support your being able to do so if you want to. But don't provoke unnecessary confrontation, bait LEO's, and act like an uncouth jerk. And don't record it on video and splatter your bad behavior around Facebook and YouTube. It doesn't help responsible gun owners.

I'm sure I'll be flamed all to hell for this. So be it. I have no patience with imbecilic showing off that reflects badly on people like me.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

A glazed donut with a string on it usually does the trick

 

[Beemerguy53]

I know a police officer who works at a major airport. The other day he responded to a security checkpoint for a call. A male passenger was glaring at the TSA officers there, giving them the evil eye, wouldn't speak at all, exhibiting very hostile body language. TSA folks are alert to signs of hostile behavior, and this guy was off the charts with his expressions and body language...definitely wanted everyone to think he was about to get violent.

The police officer took him aside and explained to him that yeah, you have the 'right' to do these things, but is it really the smart thing to do? Okay, okay, you don't like TSA, and you don't like being screened, everybody gets that, but if they think you are about to lose it, or get violent, which is the message you're sending, they won't clear you to fly.

The guy settled down a little, and they cleared him, but the LEO was puzzled by the behavior...why would anyone go into a public place like that and act so hostile for no apparent reason?

I guess it takes all kinds...

 

[rock_castle]

If someone else wants to legally OC in a public place then I have absolutely no problem with that. Knock yourself out. I legally carry concealed and will keep it that way.

 

[brucev]

Re:OP. Understand your perspective. Do not personally seek to draw attention to myself nor to I encourage or support those who do.

Within the law, I fully support OC. While I do not OC/CC, there are law abiding individuals who do one or the other. If they draw attention to themselves, fine. Exactly the same thing is done by those who push social/political agendas that are destructive to this nation. There is no reason for law abiding individuals who support the 2nd Amendment to accept being forced into a speech ghetto simply because of the sensibilities or lack of sense of those who are ignorant of the 2nd Amendment or antagonistic toward it.

As to refusing to give a police officer personal I.D., I am not cognizant of the law in all states much less my own. I would likely provide such I.D. if politely asked. Otherwise, if it were a matter of someone demanding, etc., my I.D., then as long as the law was on my side, I'd be disinclined to acquiesce.

I've always had positive interactions with the Border Patrol along with the customs officers of those places I've visited. I can't say the same for the tsa when they decide to play Barney Fife.

Exercising ones rights under the COTUS does not constitute disturbing the peace except in the mind of those who want to restrict the lawful exercise of those rights, whether it be someone who wants to restrict speech, assembly, religion, keeping and bearing arms, etc. Officers need to be well enough acquainted with the COTUS so that they do not waste time, etc. responding to groundless complaints.

Why do people feel such action is necessary? Simple. They do not trust the federal or state govt. In that respect they are walking precisely in the steps of the Founding Fathers, who themselves had no trust for any central government and who themselves acted in the COTUS to grant to the federal government only a very few powers, all else being restricted to the states, and this without exception.

 

[Lt JL]

Policemen are often the intended target of people who are angry with/about the government. We are visible, wear uniforms,"enforce the Law", and just generally opress the honest citizens of the United States of America (and Posessions, and Texas). We've been called "jack-booted thugs" so many times, it has become the username "JBT" of lots of coppers. Most of us are happy when somebody waves at us with ALL their fingers. Most people have absolutely, fundamentally no conception of how much restraint we demonstrate, and how many discretionary breaks we give people. There was never a video camera around when I gave a kiddo a coupon for a free ice cream cone because he or she was wearing a bike helmet. I guest lecture in the Academy by virtue of my new career, and I tell those young men and women to assume everything they do is on video, and that they should conduct themselves accordingly. I would really like to tell them, "except when you are doing something nice, or heroic". As Gilbert and Sullivan wrote in "The Pirates of Penzance", "A Policeman's life is not a happy one". I don't tell the recruits that, cuz I don't want to crush their little Eagle Scout spirits. John

 

[pineappleshooter]

A glazed donut with a string on it usually does the trick

Dangnabit Caj - you beat me to it again. I need to get home earlier!

 

[Fishslayer]

It's actually pretty simple. Are they breaking the law?

No? "Have a nice day."

Yes? "You have the right to remain silent etc etc etc..."

Being a jerk isn't illegal.

 

[coltle6920]

Janet Napolitano indoctrinated people when she said "If you see something,say something." This wasn't addressed to just the anti gun groups.If it was common to see numerous people walking the streets open carrying then the cops probably wouldn't get called.

If I was in law enforcement and got caught up in a situation like this where you refused to provide I.D. or got a little snotty you would be taken downtown.Whether it's legal or not open carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a town is not most people's idea of what open carry is.

I'm not against open carry but I am against idiots that try to test the limits of the law and the patience of people that have to enforce them.

 

[Fishslayer]

If I was in law enforcement and got caught up in a situation like this where you refused to provide I.D. or got a little snotty you would be taken downtown.Whether it's legal or not open carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a town is not most people's idea of what open carry is.

I'm not against open carry but I am against idiots that try to test the limits of the law and the patience of people that have to enforce them.

The result of all those AWs wandering around with their unloaded open carried rifles & handguns was that it's now illegal in Kalifornistan to do so.

Guess they showed them....

 

[handejector]

Once there was a time when good character, displayed with dignity over years, then decades, and finally a lifetime, was enough satisfaction for a man who was secure within and content with his own persona.

Nowadays, with 'relative morality' and 'flexible integrity', they don't have a real persona of character to live contently within. Many people seem to feel a terrible need for notoriety so they can "be somebody". They must have exposure and their 15 minutes of fame, or they fear they will vaporize into obscurity like they never existed. They must be visible to the world. They must be on the net, with or without relevance and substance.

Witness the idiots who make the ******* vids......

LOOK at ME!!

 

[MrTrolleyguy]

Police Officer and Border Patrol are not our enemies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here here!

And if you're not sound enough of mind to realize your violation of cultural norms... meaning common sense and a possibility of harm to another in that case you have demonstrated that you are not a candidate for gun ownership. No two ways about it.

And by this same reasoning, IMHO, James Yeager did not deserve the Mercy extended to him by the Great State of Tennessee.

 

[Hodgin]

This type of behavior wouldn't exist without you tube. Some folks have a need to be seen. Not all OCers are in like that but these young men and women on you tube are about more than their rights to self-defense. Not much difference between them and Miley Cyrus.

 

[bluegrassarms]

carry generally, and I believe open carry, is a right.

With rights come responsibilities. The right to free speech comes with the responsibility to not shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater and endanger the lives of others, or to incite a riot.

The right to carry is the right to self defense, but is carrying an AR-15 into a crowded theater an act of self defense or an irresponsible act that risks violence? Is that the 2nd A version of yelling "fire"?

In the vidoes sometimes the officer does a bad job and deserves to be called out. In other cases they are just trying to assess the situation and do their job and the person is trying to get them to mess up to get on youtube.

That is not a responsible use of one's right of self defense IMO.

Carry for sure, open carry if you choose, but be responsible. Carry the gun properly, be trained properly, don't brandish it or use it for purposes other than defense of yourself and others.

Every right comes with the requirement to be a responsible adult when using it.

(PS - in Ky the police have the right to stop you even on foot to ask for your ccdw permit and assess the situation, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Cooperate, give them every chance to treat you fairly, if they don't then you can raise a stink. )