Forget trying to feed the masses...coming up with a plan to quench their thirst will become a bigger priority in the near future.
Could this be the beginning of a water war
- Thread starter LVSteve
- Start date
Fortunately, treaty with Canada prohibits taking water out of the Great Lakes area.
Ohio River water is champagne compared to Indiana water.
Old Arkansawyer
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Seems to me some movie/tv actor was watering his orchard.
OP
LVSteve
Member
Those developers should be paying fair market value for their water.
THE PILGRIM
Member
Vegas used to spray effluent from the sewer plants on the city golf courses.
I have been down to My Buddy's house when spraying was underway.
A little smelly!
That stuff is loaded with nutrients and it do make the grass grow green!
I have been down to My Buddy's house when spraying was underway.
A little smelly!
That stuff is loaded with nutrients and it do make the grass grow green!
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Good luck to any state that tries to pipe in water from Colorado! Drought is a more or less permanent condition here, and there is a horde of lawyers specializing in water law, always ready to drag any case into court for years of litigation. Colorado cities are constantly purchasing or leasing water rights on both sides of the Continental Divide, and the farmers and folks living downstream mean nothing to those pushing growth at any cost.
Unlike some states, in Colorado the water rights are deeded real estate interests, primarily established by the history of "first use" and secondarily decided by "historic flows". For the past 30 years or more there have been farmers in the lower Arkansas River valley forced to install monitored water meters on their wells and limit their uses to comply with federal court orders requiring delivery of historical flows beyond state lines. The aquifers in many areas have dropped, in many cases by hundreds of feet, because of excessive (and perhaps illegal) water uses. In some areas farmers have sold off water rights to the big cities, leaving entire counties with agricultural lands having no market value.
It has only been a few years since the last time I saw reports of people shooting other people over water access in southern Colorado.
Our most recent drought cycle was 2001 to 2015, and it will require 15 years of "normal" for anything to return to "normal" again. Meanwhile, the population of the state continues growing and all the big city suburbs expect to have watered lawns and golf courses, and the farmers and ranchers can just dry up and blow away.
Unlike some states, in Colorado the water rights are deeded real estate interests, primarily established by the history of "first use" and secondarily decided by "historic flows". For the past 30 years or more there have been farmers in the lower Arkansas River valley forced to install monitored water meters on their wells and limit their uses to comply with federal court orders requiring delivery of historical flows beyond state lines. The aquifers in many areas have dropped, in many cases by hundreds of feet, because of excessive (and perhaps illegal) water uses. In some areas farmers have sold off water rights to the big cities, leaving entire counties with agricultural lands having no market value.
It has only been a few years since the last time I saw reports of people shooting other people over water access in southern Colorado.
Our most recent drought cycle was 2001 to 2015, and it will require 15 years of "normal" for anything to return to "normal" again. Meanwhile, the population of the state continues growing and all the big city suburbs expect to have watered lawns and golf courses, and the farmers and ranchers can just dry up and blow away.
"U-Hauls."
I live in the Sierra foothills. I drilled a well when I built my home 29 years back. $9400 bucks 540 Ft deep. Now the state wants to put meter on my well... Well good luck.
ACP230
Member
"Michigan water tastes like sherry wine.
Oh but Mississippi water tastes like turpentine..."
Jelly Roll Morton, Michigan Water Blues.
Oh but Mississippi water tastes like turpentine..."
Jelly Roll Morton, Michigan Water Blues.
OP
LVSteve
Member
IMHO it's no longer about paying a fair price. After all, there is no price for what you cannot get.
steveno
Member
water has always been an issue on the front range in Colorado. so what does Ft. Collins do but give tax incentives to have a Budweiser brewery built north of town. the brewery gets their water regardless of your needs
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riverrat38
US Veteran
It's already being done indirectly. Underground aquifers carry water a long way. Nestle swung a deal with the town of Evart and the State of Michigan to pump 130 million gallons of water a year for bottling their Ice Mountain brand. They pay the State $200 annually for the right to plunder.
The corporation does pay property and business taxes and their employee's pay all the usual taxes and contribute to the local economy, but it's still a horrible deal for Michiganders. The resource belong to the people of Michigan and has devastated the Twin Creek River fishery. Evart is a poor town and was behind it because they wanted the jobs, but the bulk of them are at the bottling plant in an adjacent county. I think they only employ about 50 people at the pumping station and truck the water to the plant. Evart got hosed and Nestle got richer...
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Dougaz
Member
So here we go again! Arizona's monsoon season is pretty much over and we've received squat for rain. Winter snow pack? Another joke and it just goes on and on and on.
Whats funny is that we went through two (2) 100 year floods where pretty much all the bridges crossing the salt river were washed out ..... Now? Not so much. Lord we need rain!
Whats funny is that we went through two (2) 100 year floods where pretty much all the bridges crossing the salt river were washed out ..... Now? Not so much. Lord we need rain!
Put a parking meter on your well!
BLACKHAWKNJ
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I note these are the states that have legalized MJ and bragging about all the revenue they are receiving but my understanding is MJ cultivation is very water intensive.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
As I mentioned earlier, water rights in Colorado are deeded real estate interests. Water rights may be severed from the land on which the water exists, or through which the water passes, and water may be claimed (in some circumstances) at points above the drainage up to the source (mountain run-off, etc).
Since water rights are real property interests the owner may sell of lease to anyone who will pay the price. Many farmers have found that they can either work hard all year to earn $200 per acre in crops, or they can sell the water that irrigated that acre for $5,000, or they may lease the water for $500 per year. It is difficult for many farmers to justify the efforts and risks of continuing to farm when they can easily sell or lease the water and retain the house and land (perhaps for dry land grazing or other uses).
Similarly, some smaller communities may hold water rights for municipal water systems, and some excess capacity may exist that can be sold or leased to other users. The large Front Range communities have been very aggressive in purchasing such water rights, frequently resulting in political scandals involving underhanded deals, bribes, or kickback schemes.
When a marijuana consortium enters the water market it typically drives the costs of water rights (sales or leases) up drastically, and other potential users (farmers, ranchers, municipalities) simply cannot compete with the marijuana investors.
It has gotten to be a very difficult business for everyone. As I stated earlier, anyone attempting to obtain approval for removing water from Colorado (by pipeline, etc) would have a very difficult time achieving such a goal (without a LOT OF POLITICAL INFLUENCE; i.e.: HUGE PILES OF CASH).
The 'Water Knife' by Paolo Bacigalupi cut right to the heart of what the future and it's water wars will look like, set in the triangulation of California, Nevada and Arizona.
The planet is changing, and future generations living in it will judge us harshly for the poor care taking we conducted of the air and water.
What hurt us was pure greed. Whereas we needed coal and petrol to develop and grow, we had the emerging technologies decades ago to begin modifying our use of it, to allow us to clean up our air and water tables while continuing job creation and economic expansion through building new power industries.
When short term profit returns to investors is the Holy Grail to the exclusion of everything else, however, milking the cow dry until it keels over is the outcome. And get enough dead cows, tends to stink up the place.
The planet is changing, and future generations living in it will judge us harshly for the poor care taking we conducted of the air and water.
What hurt us was pure greed. Whereas we needed coal and petrol to develop and grow, we had the emerging technologies decades ago to begin modifying our use of it, to allow us to clean up our air and water tables while continuing job creation and economic expansion through building new power industries.
When short term profit returns to investors is the Holy Grail to the exclusion of everything else, however, milking the cow dry until it keels over is the outcome. And get enough dead cows, tends to stink up the place.
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