Could use some help with filling out end label!
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Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
You do understand that some of the serious collectors (not I) bristle at the notion of reproduction labels? They may have unkind thoughts for anyone recreating a correct box as they may consider that to constitute forgery.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
bigmoneylewis
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Seriously ? Why in the world did anybody tool up and make reproduction labels?
This will be abused no doubt to mislead and trick buyers in to thinking they are getting an original box with the gun they just paid top dollar for. The intentions may be good, but I see greedy scamers aging reproduction boxes and adding repro labels to squeeze out an additional $ 400 from the unsuspecting collector.
Reproduction documentation is bad news, no matter what hobby you are in. We have a big problem in the collector car world with people making reproduction buildsheets, fender tags, VINs etc. Art collectors are having a big problem with "reproduction" certificates of authinticity,
The Chinese have honed their art of counterfieting rare U.S.coins to the point where several have gotten into PCGS holders as genuine ,
Damn scammers are ruining every hobby you can think of .
Lewis
This will be abused no doubt to mislead and trick buyers in to thinking they are getting an original box with the gun they just paid top dollar for. The intentions may be good, but I see greedy scamers aging reproduction boxes and adding repro labels to squeeze out an additional $ 400 from the unsuspecting collector.
Reproduction documentation is bad news, no matter what hobby you are in. We have a big problem in the collector car world with people making reproduction buildsheets, fender tags, VINs etc. Art collectors are having a big problem with "reproduction" certificates of authinticity,
The Chinese have honed their art of counterfieting rare U.S.coins to the point where several have gotten into PCGS holders as genuine ,
Damn scammers are ruining every hobby you can think of .
Lewis
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Told ya...
You answered your own question.
And it isn't a future likelihood. Anybody notice an uptick in "original, numbered" boxes with guns for sale in the last year or so? I have...
It's our own fault (some of us) that this is happening. If a buyer turns up their nose at an otherwise nice revolver because it is missing a dang cardboard box, a black and white instruction sheet, or a minimally functional screwdriver, the market levels the field by providing those items.
I'm not saying it's right to defraud people. It's not. However, if you are a buyer that gets all googly eyed over "box and papers", you'd better be on your toes.
I'm not saying it's right to defraud people. It's not. However, if you are a buyer that gets all googly eyed over "box and papers", you'd better be on your toes.
Watchdog
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What would your first guess be? Money, of course.
There's a bunch of them for sale on fleabay.
Easy now, Lewis.
I had the label on one of my boxes curl up and fall off so I put on a repro. No intention to fool anyone, the original stays in the box where it won't get lost.
-Z-
The fake boxes have been an issue with the Colt collectors for several years now. There's an individual from Sparta TN that has been doing it on a couple of major auction sights. He even has pre-1900 SAA boxes he will sell you for $750. He's gotten much better at faking them too, it's become difficult to tell them from real boxes in some cases.
Well, here's the other side of the coin: I had a question about my warranty-refinished Colt electroless DS (refinished by Colt due to failure of the early experimental electroless finish) so I went to the Colt forum and posted my question along with a photo of the original box label for authenticity. I got zero responses after well over 100 views. 
Apparently the Colt collecting scene is riddled beyond the imagination with frauds, fakes, misrepresentations. I guess the members there figured that this was just another attempt by someone to pass off a 3rd party refinished Colt for a Colt refinished Colt.
Seems like every fifth post over there is about frauds, fakes and misrepresentations.
I guess I should have expected the cold shoulder. 
Apparently the Colt collecting scene is riddled beyond the imagination with frauds, fakes, misrepresentations. I guess the members there figured that this was just another attempt by someone to pass off a 3rd party refinished Colt for a Colt refinished Colt.
Seems like every fifth post over there is about frauds, fakes and misrepresentations.
I guess I should have expected the cold shoulder. Ha!!! I see you beat me to the draw re: Colts.
All 19-3s were labeled in pink ink, very important. Shade the backround in light yellow. Also that's a post marcas registradas gun, so all letters must be written in Spanish. Oh, and almost forgot, underline each individual letter with orange ink. Make sure the letters alternate leaning from right to left. If you follow all these steps, even an expert won't be able to tell.
Well, here's the other side of the coin: I had a question about my warranty-refinished Colt electroless DS (refinished by Colt due to failure of the early experimental electroless finish) so I went to the Colt forum and posted my question along with a photo of the original box label for authenticity. I got zero responses after well over 100 views.
Apparently the Colt collecting scene is riddled beyond the imagination with frauds, fakes, misrepresentations. I guess the members there figured that this was just another attempt by someone to pass off a 3rd party refinished Colt for a Colt refinished Colt.
Seems like every fifth post over there is about frauds, fakes and misrepresentations.
There probably aren't that many people that can tell real from fake over on the Colt forum, and some of those that can need to see the boxes in person. They also don't want to give up what they look for in a fake box because they know the forger from Sparta monitors the forum.
let he who is without sin, cast the first stone, I been selling boxes from out of the trash, and gun shows, since the 1960s, most all of them pretty darn cheap, and I can tell you MOST of the collectors been buying them all these years,,,if NO ONE wanted or needed them, they would NOT sell, now days I could NOT even buy one for twice the money I used to get for them.Nothing wrong with putting YOUR gun into a "proper vintage" package,,,,,,,,,now YOU want to try and scam or perpetrate a fraud on to someone else, then shame on YOU.................
+1. BTW, how many of us put period correct (but not numbered to the gun) grips on a gun we acquire with goodyears? Oh yeah, the SAT in my pre 29 box is not the one that came with it originally. Nor is the mop. Guess I'm a forger.
Jack Flash
Member
This points out a real problem. Trying to be helpful, many experts here will describe in detail the tell-tale signs of a fake. Unfortunately, unscrupulous individuals can access this information as easily as anyone else.
Dennis The B
US Veteran
It's one thing to have a box which may be period correct, but not original to the gun. Lot's of boxes get sold at garage sales, etc., and the guns are long gone.
However, the clown from Sparta, whether he monitors the Colt Forum, or not, probably doesn't fill out the labels for his counterfeits. The end user probably does, and that person doesn't particularly care if the writing is correct. They know the box and forged documents will enhance the value of a Python, etc. And because collectors with little experience will fall for the "NIB Python, Original Box, Documents" spiel. The worst I've seen are the ones with 1990's copyrights, with 1970's guns.
And speaking of fakes.
Weekend before last, I attended a local gun show. This company moves from city to city, and you see a lot of new guns, and not a lot of collectible arms.
One shooter had two Pythons and a Diamondback for sale at his table. All three had four inch barrels, but one particularly caught my eye. The seller had $1,900 on the gun, and told me that this particular one was a "near mint" 1973-1974 model, which the serial number confirmed. His price was firm.
However, as soon as I looked at the gun, you could see the faults. The 2nd generation stocks had been refinished, and not that well. The worst thing, though, was the fact the barrel had been cut from 6", to 4". The sight was remounted, but the front sight sat proud to the rib, since the rib no longer tapered upward. The roll marks were off-center toward the muzzle, and the crown was flush.
I mentioned this to the seller, and he just glared a bit, insisting that the revolver was "mint".
However, the clown from Sparta, whether he monitors the Colt Forum, or not, probably doesn't fill out the labels for his counterfeits. The end user probably does, and that person doesn't particularly care if the writing is correct. They know the box and forged documents will enhance the value of a Python, etc. And because collectors with little experience will fall for the "NIB Python, Original Box, Documents" spiel. The worst I've seen are the ones with 1990's copyrights, with 1970's guns.
And speaking of fakes.
Weekend before last, I attended a local gun show. This company moves from city to city, and you see a lot of new guns, and not a lot of collectible arms.
One shooter had two Pythons and a Diamondback for sale at his table. All three had four inch barrels, but one particularly caught my eye. The seller had $1,900 on the gun, and told me that this particular one was a "near mint" 1973-1974 model, which the serial number confirmed. His price was firm.
However, as soon as I looked at the gun, you could see the faults. The 2nd generation stocks had been refinished, and not that well. The worst thing, though, was the fact the barrel had been cut from 6", to 4". The sight was remounted, but the front sight sat proud to the rib, since the rib no longer tapered upward. The roll marks were off-center toward the muzzle, and the crown was flush.
I mentioned this to the seller, and he just glared a bit, insisting that the revolver was "mint".
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Completing a set of correct vintage (un-numbered) tools and parts for the sake of personally enjoying an "original" gun with box and accessories is common, as you know - been there, done that. A world of difference from selling this as original from the factory with a correspondingly higher price, and at least one solar system away from faked labels, aging and whatnot.
