Could use some help with filling out end label!

[shawn mccarver]

I am sorry to say that this practice, IF DONE TO DEFRAUD SOMEONE, is only one step removed from SOME (NOT ALL, SO IT IS NOT NECESSARY THAT EVERYONE ATTACK ME OVER THIS) folks who inquire how to clean the burn rings off the cylinder face. I have seen such guns at gun shows - they stick out LIKE A SORE THUMB - and the fat gent behind the table "spewing fragments of cheeseburger" INSISTS that the weapon is "new in the box and unfired."

It is "buyer beware" not only as to boxes, papers, tools, but also as to attempting to make a weapon fired since the factory look unfired except by the factory.

I have been looking at how they come in for decades now, and I can and do know the difference.

 

[Big Cholla]

"Authentic" vs. "Reproduction" can take another twist: I had a friend here in LV that was what I deemed a "fanatical craftsman". He was an artist, then an upholsterer, then an Aircraft A&E Mechanic. He got interested in the issue equipment the average German Soldier had to work with while in Africa. He collected as much as possible but could never come up with a real Overseas Field Cap. He researched thru friends in Germany and found the actual company that made the Feldgrau Twill. He obtained all sorts of pictures. He found a German made thread that was all but the same as the original. He went to work and made one. He sent it to some people very active in the Battle Reenactment crowd. They wanted 40 or 50 of them. He made about 60. I was going to a gun show locally as a seller and he asked if he could sit in and try to sell the extras. He put one on the table and put a small card beside it that said, "Reproduction German Heer/Elite Enlistee M40 Field Cap" and the price. A small thin bald gentleman stopped and looked at the cap. With an accent, he asked if he could pick it up and examine the cap. My friend said, "Yes". The old gent took a good long look and then put the hat back down and said, "You are asking far too little for this cap as it is a new original." My friend said, "No sir, it is a reproduction." The old gent grew a little hostile and told him, "I was a Quartermaster for Rommel". I know for a fact that is as original as they come.". My friend said, "Thank you for the compliment. I made that hat from scratch." The old gent wasn't ready to accept that. He pointed out that the Twill was the German Twill, the thread was correct, the sewing with the thread was spaced correctly and even the size tab was correct and in mm. My friend said, "Yes, I made sure of all that by doing a lot of research." The old gent finished by saying, "Well, you could sell them to me as original all day long." And with that he walked off but not before giving my friend a salute (not the Nazi salute). ........... Big Cholla

 

[TTSH]

Completing a set of correct vintage (un-numbered) tools and parts for the sake of personally enjoying an "original" gun with box and accessories is common, as you know - been there, done that. A world of difference from selling this as original from the factory with a correspondingly higher price, and at least one solar system away from faked labels, aging and whatnot.

I don't think too many people object to the owner of a "boxless" vintage gun buying an authentic period box to go with it. The fraud comes in only if that box is later represented as "original" and matched to the gun (meaning the gun in question was delivered out of the factory in that box).

The "reproduction" label thing (nicer word for "fake") is a far nastier fraud if used to falsely represent a box as original to the gun in order to get more money for it.

I don't think that fake S&W boxes are as much of a problem as fake Colt boxes. I could see where the box that my 1980ish electroless DS came in could be very easily reproduced in almost any print shop.

Fake S&W labels are another matter. They are probably very easily reproduced. That would upset me greatly if I detected one on the box of a gun I was considering buying.

Not long ago, I bought a 3rd Gen that was represented as being "used, with 2 magazines and box". I took for granted that the box was the original box for the gun. When the box was later turned over to me, I was shocked to see the label gone... very obviously torn off on purpose and a sloppy job at that.

While possibly correct for the gun, I'm betting now that it was not original to the gun. Nothing like that feeling of having been played for a fool.

 

[Laketime]

So when will the bag used to bring the gun home from the gunshop start to be of importance as well ?I much prefer the old days when a box and papers maybe brought an extra $10. To the sale price.

 

[Comrad]

Absent any actual indisputable proof that something is genuine we must assume it's fake.
I learned that watching the Pawn Stars.

 

[Hapworth]

It used to be "Buy the gun, not the story..." to which I've amended, "Buy the gun, not story...or the box, or the tools or the docs."

I've never been a collector in the "mint", "as new", etc. sense, but was never closed to the idea of a top-level purchase if the right one came along.

That's fading.

These days my ideal purchase is a revolver in fresh, superb mechanical condition with no box, tools or docs (real or dubious) to run up the price, and just a teensy touch of honest wear so I won't get fussy about actually, you know, using the thing.

 

[ibewbull]

Copy







My replacement 28-2 is a copy of my original 28-2.
I picked up a second so both of my sons n have one.
The Polish Kawalski was what I rode to pick it up originally Norfolk VA.

None are for sale.
I don't have the cast from my MC accident but can tell a story for a beer.

 

[Frank237]

I wonder why Colt hasn't gotten a few of their Attorneys to go after the Sparta counterfeiter? I would imagine it's a copyright infringement.

 

[Voyager28]

Reproduction S&W labels? You can buy them on eBay for $10.

"Buy the gun, not the story". I like that!

Bob

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I have a number of original end labels that I got from the factory.
I would never sell any, nor I would never use any.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I do not see what the issue is. As long as he does not pawn it off as an original then so be it. Not everyone is a collector. Like someone said above, some of the guns are long gone and only the boxes are left.

James

 

[lamarw]

I have read that the first block for the serial number will contain the first letter of the serial number if it has a first letter, and then the first three number digits will go in the next block and the remaining numbers will go in the last block. I am not sure I believe this since I have seen boxes that had the first numerals in the second block and the last three numbers in the serial number in the last block. Who Knows? I wonder if it could even be different from the factory depending on how the packer preferred to do it.

As the old saying goes - believe nothing you have heard or read and only half of what you have seen.

You may want to double check this by looking at pictures of boxes on the internet such as eBay and GunBroker to see if this holds true. Although, you never know who placed the numbers on the labels in the pictures.

There is a page or two on boxes in the book "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson". I notice they discuss types of boxes for various time periods in S&W's history but there is no discussion of entries on labels.

 

[Dennis The B]

I wonder why Colt hasn't gotten a few of their Attorneys to go after the Sparta counterfeiter? I would imagine it's a copyright infringement.

That's the $64K question. Colt could probably get a permanent injunction in a heartbeat, if they'd file a lawsuit. Every fake box, label, etc., all go to damaging Colt's image.

Back in the late 1980's, I bought a Mont Blanc fountain pen. A bit later, I saw a local drug store chain selling Mont Blanc knockoffs, and using the Mont Blanc name.

I called Kohinoor, which was the U.S. distributor of Mont Blanc then, and complained. In 24 hours the pens had been removed from the stores' display cases.

The problem with Colt protecting their trademark and name, have been discussed for a long time over at the Colt Forum.

 

[G-Mac]

The Polish Kawalski was what I rode to pick it up originally Norfolk VA.

Nice Triple! I've owned one of every year H-1 and one of every year H-2.