Cowboy Self Defense.

BLACKHAWKNJ

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
6,218
Reaction score
6,681
Saw this on another board, referred to the use of "cowboy style" firearms-coach guns-with outside hammers-lever actions, single action revolvers. A single action definitely not a good 1st/2nd/3rd/4th choice but IMHO beats no gun, a cowboy style long gun in the hands of someone who has trained and is familiar with it, in a proper caliber. On that other board someone mentioned seeing people short stroking a lever action, there's cocking outside hammers under stress. Your thoughts ?
 
Register to hide this ad
On that other board someone mentioned seeing people short stroking a lever action, there's cocking outside hammers under stress. Your thoughts ?

The now retired instructor who I took private lessons with, brought out stress with charging target trolleys from short range.
My worst short-stroke performance was with long reset revolver triggers.
Arthritis finger stiffness worked against me.
Pump shotgun had occasional stress short-stroke also.
Lever rifle and short trigger reset semi-auto never had a short-stroke problem, but I learned from the beginning to rack the lever like you're angry at it.




Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk
 
The external hammer double barrel shotgun takes a bit of practice but can be handled quickly enough to hunt upland birds.

I hunted for a bit with a Parker with exposed hammers and didn't miss a shot because of the hammers.

If you shoot a round of trap, beginning at port arms with hammers down, you'll be surprised how quickly and automatically you can manipulate the hammers.
 
Having shot original Colt SAA's, pre-1900 Marlins and early Winchester 97's in Cowboy Action Shooting for several years, I'd bet on me with a Colt SAA against a 'bad guy' with a Glock any day of the week.
I took a few defensive handgun courses with a local (former military) instructor. His first comment to me was to ask if I'd shot CAS matches in the past.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast! I think Col Cooper first said that.
For what it's worth, my instructor ran us through 'double tap, then tap' drills for vest situations.
 
Don't mind me, I'm just waiting on the inevitable silly posts by wannabe experts who will assert that these weapons are useless by modern standards.

Bonus points if they start rattling off all sorts of dubious uncited statistics asserting that men in the late 1800s to early 1900s were all 5ft tall, 125lbs, and that most handgun fatalities were a result of infection due to primitive medical treatments in unsanitary environments, but how today most thugs are 7ft tall, weight 300lbs, and are nearly impervious to small arms fire, requiring no less than 17 shots to the cranium to successfully stop, complete with a proud endorsement for their prized Tactical Pterodactyl Alpha-Romeo One-Five Pistol chambered in the latest whiz-bang .22-30cal rifle cartridge that they keep in their trunk.
 
If you are hitting into kevlar in a personal defense situation.

Training tops all, for sure!

These days hitting center mass is more and more likely to make a 'thud' into kevlar, possibly an overwhelming 'boom' of an explosive vest.

Then choice of firearms is not the biggest mistake that you made on that day. Just sayin.
 
After shooting in SASS Matches for over 20 years it amazed me just how fast I became at operating a lever action rifle/carbine! While not optimal, a SAA revolver is also viable in the hands of the right person. While reloading one is quite slow, most of the time 5 rounds of 45 Colt, will get the job done. While i've seen guys reload a Coach gun incredibly fast it would not be my first choice for a HD shotgun.

A lever action carbine in 45 Colt or 357 / 38 spl. is not a bad HD option.
 
Last edited:
A whole lot hunters, anglers, and other backcountry enthusiasts (myself included) seem to be happy relying on SA revolvers, as well as pump and lever action rifles and shotguns for hunting and protection in the outdoors. All are adequate home defensive firearms in the hands of someone who knows how to use them.
 
I don't have any experience with cowboy weapons (yet! Got a couple revolvers on the way, one a black powder version), but if I had a lever action rifle with a short barrel in an appropriate caliber, I believe I would be more than adequately armed after a little practice. I think it would make a dandy home defense weapon. If I think about it a little more, I'll end up ordering one. Not that I don't have home defense weapons out the wazoo already!
 
Cowboy guns are pretty cool. I like single actions (SAAs are cool, but the Schofields are cooler), I love love love lever guns, and SxS coach guns are pretty sweet too. It's also totally ok to both understand that they're adequate self defense options for almost everyone, by virtue of the fact that most of us aren't using our SD pieces, and also that most cowboy pieces aren't commonly used for SD these days for a reason. Semi-automatic pistols (and even DA revolvers), and semi-auto rifles, pump (or semi) shotguns beat the hell out of the cowboy guns in almost every metric, but cowboy guns are cool, any gun beats no gun, and an effective round circa 1880 will find the same effectiveness in 2022.
 
While I could use a SA, hammered shotgun or even a lever gun with no problem. They would not be at the top of my list. Way to many other guns that can be handled faster and with higher round count that I would pick.
 
Having shot original Colt SAA's, pre-1900 Marlins and early Winchester 97's in Cowboy Action Shooting for several years, I'd bet on me with a Colt SAA against a 'bad guy' with a Glock any day of the week.
I took a few defensive handgun courses with a local (former military) instructor. His first comment to me was to ask if I'd shot CAS matches in the past.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast! I think Col Cooper first said that.
For what it's worth, my instructor ran us through 'double tap, then tap' drills for vest situations.

I've heard of the "Mozambique" and "Failure to Stop" drill, but not the "double tap, then tap" drill. Is it any different?

——-


I'm not sure it matters. I used to practice double taps when I shot practical pistol competition on a regular basis. However, I moved away from the double tap for the same reasons I moved away from what practical pistol competition had become. The double tap makes sense when you need to put two shoots in virtually every target to "neutralize" it and many of those targets are at close range. It also makes sense when you have silly rules that assume the nearest targets are the greatest threats and must be neutralized first. In that environment you can start out double tapping and then transition to controlled pairs as the distance and accuracy requirement increases.

The problem with a double tap is that you are training to put 2 rounds in every target, and quite frankly accuracy still suffers.

Over time, shooting at ranges beyond a couple yards - out at 7, 10, 15 and 25 yards - I found a controlled pair to be much more useful than a double tap. My splits are still down around .3 seconds and the accuracy is 10 ring and A zone worthy at 15 yards and a very slight increase in split times delivers the same accuracy at 25 yards.

If you practice to establish the flash sight picture, fire a shot, re establish the sight picture, fire the second shot, and then re establish the sight picture, you've set your self up for a Mozambique/failure to stop scenario, with a fraction of a second pause as you transition to the head and assess whether the target is going down or not.

My controlled pairs are also based on the slow is smooth, smooth is fast concept. When I teach a new shooter to shoot a pistol, I teach them to:

- smoothly and slowly bring the pistol up from a low ready position into their line of sight looking at the target;

- Focus on the front sight and put it on the spot on the target they want to hit;

- then pause and precisely align the rear sight on the front sight;

- keep the sights aligned while they squeeze the trigger; then

- bring the front sight back on target and pause to align the sights.

Over hundreds of repetitions, they develop a consistent grip and the muscle memory needed for the rear sight to be aligned with the front sight with no need to refine the alignment, unless it's a 25, 50 or 100 yard shot. The pause then becomes just a brief check that the sights are aligned and the front sight is on target.

Similarly, over repetition they develop the trigger control needed to squeeze the trigger without disturbing the sights.

At that point they can start picking up the pace, until the splits between two or three aimed shots is down in the 1/4-1/3rd second range. At that point the pause is near non existent but still serves to confirm the target, and whether the target still needs to be shot.

As long as they include so,e long range practice to ensure they maintain good sight alignment, accuracy won't degrade as it often does when someone just focuses on a speed and "double taps".

——

There's a built in advantage with a DA revolver where the long and comparatively heavy DA pull isn't conducive to a double tap, but both works well with and encourages a controlled pair.

A single action revolver arguably has that same "advantage" in spades, provided the shooter doesn't deviate from the slow is smooth, smooth is fast approach and start compromising the fundamentals and related accuracy.
 
While I could use a SA, hammered shotgun or even a lever gun with no problem. They would not be at the top of my list. Way to many other guns that can be handled faster and with higher round count that I would pick.

It depends how you use it.

Today, people seem to bias handgun and rifle use toward self defense, forgetting firearms are tools with plenty of other uses.

For example a lever action rifle in a cartridge like .30-30 is a solid 230 yard cartridge that works on anything up to deer sized game or similar 200-300 pound "threats" and it fits very nicely into a scabbard, originally on a saddle but more relevant to day on one of the variety of "power sports" vehicles. Back in the 1990s I had a 1956 CJ5 with a rack on the dash that was perfect for a Model 94 Carbine. An AR-15, not so much.

Also back in the day the Model 94 made a great patrol rifle out west as it was light, handy, would fit in a weapon rack and had sufficient accuracy for the threat, whether it was a feral dog killing cattle, or a threat of the two legged variety.

It also didn't alarm the citizenry or lead to concerns about the police being militarized. It was the same tool pretty much every rancher and hunter either carried, had, or was at least familiar with.

Today, with the much greater availability of Model 92 based carbines and rifles in .357 Magnum, with velocities a bit over 1800 fps with a 158 gr bullet, and larger magazine capacity, it's arguable the lever gun is an even more relevant choice than in the past.

That said, the "round count" argument is way, way over blown, especially with a rifle. If you need more than a half dozen rounds, you're either spraying and praying or you've gotten yourself into a situation that someone with a lick of common sense would have used just a modicum of situational awareness and good judgement to avoid entirely.

More to the point, what's our accurate, honest and truthful response to claims that "assault rifles" make mass shootings more deadly? It's to point out that the rate of fire and magazine capacity is virtually never a factor, given the time lines involved. A lever gun would be just as deadly as an "assault rifle". If assault rifles are ever banned, they'll almost immediately figure out it didn't change the death toll in mass shootings at all and they'll start in on banning lever action rifles as they are just as deadly. And technically they won't be wrong, even though they still won't be addressing the underlying causes of violence in the US.
 
Back
Top