crimson trace, useful or a waste of money?

I have almost talked myself into trying them out, but I pinch myself, and forget about it again. Maybe one day.
 
The LG-405s are what I use on my 642. They are great. Your wife will be well served by them, Jamie.
 
Wow! Four pages of replies in a 24 hour period, mostly favorable. Add me to that list. I purchased my J-frame (a 637) eight - nine years ago with dealer installed LG-305 Crimson Trace grips. I was so pleased that I bought a set for my T-series Browning Hi Power a year later. Five years ago, when I bought my 686+, I installed them on it as well. In short, I would not buy a handgun that Crimson Trace did not make a set for -- that is how sold I am.

Many are turned off because they first attempt to use laser sights at the range, and are humiliated by the way the laser dot herky-jerks all over the place. That is NOT the place to start. Do it at home, dry firing at door knobs, light bulbs, whatever -- come to grips with the problem in private. Then, and only then, go to the range.

As for the laser giving your location away in a self/home defense situation, activating the laser should be the last thing you do before pulling the trigger. If you believe you can scare your opponent away by flashing him with the laser sight (or worse yet, blinding him with it!), you might as well give the gun to him. You sure aren't prepared to use it.

Cordially, Jack
 
You got that right Jack! The first time I tried my CT grip at the range it looked like a Pink Floyd concert. I thought it was funny and started laughing, which made it worse. When ever I bring a non-shooter to the range for training we start out with my 1911, unloaded, with the Crimson Trace grips.
 
Does anyone with large hands who is using CT sights on their 442/642 models have problems with your grip interfering with the laser? I maintain a very high grip on these guns to control recoil and my trigger finger looks as if it would cover the laser at that angle.
 
bountyhunter said:
I have several lasers and don't use any of them. They are useful for LE's who can put a laser spot on a guy's chest to make him rethink his belligerent attitude. For civilians, a waste of money IMHO. Night sights are far more useful. At home, the laser just gives the bad guy a point to aim at to kill you. At the range, I believe you will find you shoot less accurately with a laser since you are forced to hold the gun in an unnatural way to be able to "see around" the sights to pick up the laser. I always shoot tighter groups looking down the sights than using a laser. About 99.9% of civilian defense shootings are at 7 yards or less so you probably won't even need to sight the gun to hit center mass (assuming you practice regularly). Take the $250 and buy practice ammo. It will serve you much better.
Click to expand...

I would have written basically the same thing. I think the AVERAGE gun owner would be better served with competant training or practice ammo.

FN in MT
 
Frank237 said:
I would have written basically the same thing. I think the AVERAGE gun owner would be better served with competant training or practice ammo.

FN in MT
Click to expand...
As for useful lasers, I own a gadget called a "dry fire laser blaster" which is self contained laser that slides into the end of the barrel and flashes a red dot on target when the hammer hits the frame (vibration activated laser spot). That is REALLY useful for dry fire practice. I don't know if the company is still in business.

This loks like a similar product currently available:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/laserly...-lt-pro.html?gclid=CNzCnJ2d-qUCFRQ8gwodogrieA

That's how I learned that it's pretty hard to miss a man sized center mass at seven yards or less.... even unaimed shooting from the hip. That's good news and bad news. The good news is you're very likely to hit your target in a CQB fight. The bad news is the guy shooting at you is too.
 
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KEN L said:
I wish I had been the first to respond to this thread, cause my answer would have been, "You're kidding, right?!"

They say there's no such thing as a dumb question, but that one comes pretty close........
Click to expand...

To be honest i dont need advice like this from the likes of you.
 
I love Crimson Trace Laser Grips! I have read both sides of the argument and I too believe that we all should be proficient with iron sights. BUT, that red laser dot gives confidence in a stressful situation, low light situation, and immediately puts me on target. I know, and the perp knows, that my bullet is going to hit where I have place the red dot. It has that intimidation factor. I made sure my wife has Crimson on her snub revolver too.
 
hogdoc357 said:
that red laser dot gives confidence in a stressful situation, low light situation, and immediately puts me on target. I know, and the perp knows, that my bullet is going to hit where I have place the red dot. It has that intimidation factor.
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Honestly, that sounds like a TV gunfight not a real one. There is no thinking involved when confronted by an armed belligerent person, no "display of force" to intimidate them because if you do any of that, you will die. Police sometimes will give an armed guy one chance to disarm, but they wear kevlar vests. And, in truth, they usually don't either. They see a gun or anything that looks like a gun in a perp's hand and about five shots get fired immediately. I've seen cops use the laser to get a drunken jerk to settle down. Don't try that in a gunfight. If your life is actually in danger, you just shoot as quickly as you can get the barrel level with the ceiling and the muzzle pointed in the bad guy's direction. Screw around and you die.

BTW: even if a person in your house has no gun or knife, he is a deadly threat. At the range involved (about five yards) he can be on you in less than a second if he breaks for you to take your gun. That gives you time for about one aimed shot, maybe two. Assuming you are not screwing around pointing a laser.
 
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Having a pistol range in my backyard has allowed me to do quite a bit of night training with, and without, night sights & flashlights. I'm very effective if my target is static, even when I'm on the move, so much so that I decided to rely more on a Revolver than a shotgun for "critter duty."

It didn't take me long to realize that my night time training didn't mean a whole lot when my target was also on the move. When you add the fact that a flashlight creates quite a few shadows, which move when the light is moved then things get far more "busy" than when just shooting at a static target that's out in the open.

After a few frustrating attempts of dealing with destructive Raccoons relying on night sights & flashlights I added a Crimson Trace to the mix and my effectiveness went off the charts, so much so that all of my yard and carry guns now have them.

I could go into detail on how certain situations played out, and there have been many, and how I benefitted from having CT Sights but will just say that I have been able to take shots, or should I say make effective shots where before I would have been trying to acquire my target and missed my opportunity. Trust me, been there, done that........

If you know you will be face to face with your target and it, the target, will remain stationary while you take your shot then you probably wouldn't benefit much from a Laser Sight. If, on the other hand, your target may not only be moving, but shooting back, which may also put you on the move then a Laser Sight may give you an edge that will turn the tide in your favor.

They (Laser Sights) have been so successful for me that I now have a Streamlight TLR2s on my 20 ga. and have scored on shots that, in the past, I never would have taken. Actually I never would have had the chance to take them..............

With all that said, I usually train, for the most part, with my CT Sights turned off and heavily rely on Point Shooting methods.........

To put my experience into context, I live on an old Farm out in the country and have 12 Passive Infra-Red Sensors around the House & Barns that are adjusted to let me know if anything moves out there, even a Rabbit. When you factor in that I'm up from 11:00 p.m. til about 7:00 a.m. every night and respond to most sensor trips then you get some sort of feel for how much night time shooting experience I get, at least from Spring through the Fall. This experience is what I'm basing the above opinion on.......
 
Our eyes are getting pretty old, exsp low light vision. We both have trained in "point shoot" (ie no sights used) at 15 yards or less & score very well. But, in real life this "training" could be between you & the BG! Finally I broke down & put a set of C.T. Grips on her 586. Took her about 10 shots to figure them out and after that she was cutting silver dollar groups at 7 & 15 yards... in full daylight, yes they are bright! If nothing else the peace of mind it gave her was more than worth the price of the grips.
 
I put a set of the larger overmolded CT grips on my wife's SP101 and she appreciates the way they've helped her improve her strigger stroke. The amount of red dot movement during dry fire is great immediate visual feed back. She also appreciates greater comfort during live fire. I tried the smaller LG-405 but opted for a set of the large CT grips (LG-305) on my 442 which make shooting more comfortable and still allow pocket carry. We do most of our practice without the laser but do check the settings each session and have the laser switched on for carry. Expensive but worth it is my vote.
 
Bounty Hunter,
I did not mean that I would take the time to use the laser dot to intimidate. I was just pointing out that fact that it could intimidate. I completely agree with you. I will shoot to stop the threat and I agree with you that there is no time to intimidate anyone when confronted with a deadly situation.
 
I wear blended bi-focals, and it is not easy to aim with them. I find using a CT without glasses adds another dimension to personal defense, but night sites and practice with and without a CT, with and without glasses, is a must.
Roger
 
I took one of my CCW renewal classes outside at night. The front sight and sight picture simply disappeared. As a result, my carry guns all got Tritium night sights AND Crimson trace. My J frame has Spegel grips for looks but a pair of Traces are fitted to it and just need a final sighting in...

Anyone who thinks that Crimson Trace grips are just an accessory or a frill doesn't have eyes over 50 or tried to shoot in no or low light!
 
I live in Las Vegas. Very bright sun light. I did not trust them for a quick find on the target.
 
My wife has them on her Walther P22. She feels more comfortable with the red laser pointer. The LEO guys could answer this best, but I have always heard that the three things "bad guys" don't like is the sound of a shot gun being cocked, a big loud barking dog and a laser pointer being pointed at them. All of which is up for debate...but interesting.
 
I have been shooting since I was a kid and now I am 55. I started handguns about 35 years but not often. I started going to the range on a fairly regular basis in the last year due to some ******* rattling my front door last year. Trigger control is what I try and concentrate on the most. I feel confident if I can see my sights I can hit a target that is stationary just about where I want to. However although my eyesight is ok for my +55 years I dont see as well at night anymore. I installed a set of Laser grips on my already accurate 1911. When I go to the range I first turn off the master switch and shoot at least a box and a half of 45s, practicing grip and trigger control to the point its coming natural now. Then I turn the laser on and practice with it. I am now saving my pennies to get a set for my model 66-2 2 1/2 barrel I just bought in December. To me they are worth every penny. I will take any advantage I can get when it comes to a gunfight.
 
a laser hepls my wife shoot accurately quickly. without it she takes more time lining up the "sights" on her 2" model 60 NY-1.

the laser allows her to focus on the threat, not the gun, put the laser on the target and pull the trigger.

of course this is for firing at beyond 21'........for close up shes gotten pretty good at point shooting without any aid.

ive ordered a laser for my 8 year old daughter's walther p22.....will see how she takes to it.

an i agree with the folks who say that bright sun light renders the laser useless......but thats the time you use your sights for distance or point shoot close up.

the laser was not meant to be a substitute, but an aid......
 
bountyhunter said:
I have several lasers and don't use any of them. They are useful for LE's who can put a laser spot on a guy's chest to make him rethink his belligerent attitude. For civilians, a waste of money IMHO. Night sights are far more useful. At home, the laser just gives the bad guy a point to aim at to kill you. At the range, I believe you will find you shoot less accurately with a laser since you are forced to hold the gun in an unnatural way to be able to "see around" the sights to pick up the laser. I always shoot tighter groups looking down the sights than using a laser. About 99.9% of civilian defense shootings are at 7 yards or less so you probably won't even need to sight the gun to hit center mass (assuming you practice regularly). Take the $250 and buy practice ammo. It will serve you much better.
Click to expand...

So true! And using the ct adds one more step to shooting in an emergency situation. You have to look for the laser point. That may take as long as a second and that second may be critical. Bountyhunter is right. Spend the money for ammo and practice fast reactive shooting at seven to ten yards.
 
EXTREMELY useful. The only times I really hear people complain, is when they aren't trained in laser use... one of the worst things that I see is laser chasing.


The point of a laser, is that it gives you accuracy over an area (aim or point to the area first, then use the laser... don't chase it trying to find the area), and that it is easier to focus on a red dot than a plain sight, and it moves your focal point directly on the target which improves accuracy. Think about it- your eye can focus on one thing at once, but has three things to focus on (target, front sight, rear sight). The traditional way of shooting, is eye on the front sight. Your eye automatically aligns the rear sight with the front sight due to symmetrical preference, and then the blurry target is what you shoot at.


With a laser- there is ONE focal point. That bright red dot is at the same distance as the target, and, there is no rear sight. One less point to focus on, and the two other points are at the same distance. The result is greatly increased speed and accuracy because your eyes do less work, and, have a clearer picture of the work they are doing.


At 7 yards, my front sight is the size of the black. If I was in a front yard or parking lot, shooting at a distance of- say- 25 yards, the front sight may be the size (or bigger) of the target. So the laser acts as a method of not only deterrence, but also as a method to avoid missing and endangering others. If I use my front sight, I can tell you the bullet is going at the target, but if I use a laser, I can tell you that I am truly aiming at center of mass. Also, the bright red dot is easier to see in low light than tritium, and grabs your attention better... not to mention, there is no dot confusion.


I don't think the laser acting as a target is true- if the bad guy decides to destroy his retina staring into the laser, I don't think it will make him a better shot. By the way... if you decide to try this at home, I am not responsible for any loss of vision you have.
 
I got'em and I like 'em.

My first outing with a new to me 642, I put 10 shots double action into the head of a sil. target at 7 yds. You don't look at the sights or around the sights. wouldn't matter, I can't see the sights anyway. YOu look at the target.

They work for me.


Charlie
 
Big waste of money...

Personally, I've wasted at least $1500 on them for quite a few handguns (Bersa 95, Beretta 92FS, and a variety of S&W revolvers). They're no panacea, but I feel they give me a definite advantage. Ever try to shoot while moving backwards away from the threat? Difficult at best with iron sights, but a piece of cake with a laser.

For my .44 Special and .38 Special revolvers, I really like the Crimson Trace "Hoghunter" grips. They fit my hands like they're custom-made, and the softer rubber compound helps me control the weapon comfortably. YMMV
 
Been using Crimson Trace and Laser-Max since 2000, since then I have installed lasers on all my handguns with no regret.
1 CT on my Colt Defender
1 CT on my Caspian 1911, also 1 Laser-max also installed on my Caspian 1911 as a test mule (yes it has 2 lasers on it).
1 insight-tech on the S&W 380 BG
1 CT for my S&W 642
1 CT I carry in my deployment kit for trips to the sandbox. I have installed this one CT on 3 different M-9s used during my last 3 Iraqi deployments, I can safely say it has been combat tested.

I am also a fan of Tritium sights as well and consider them a sight enhancement.

Bottom line is that you need to continue some type of practice (perfect practice makes perfect shots) to develop good habits and motor skills to go along with them.

So far I favor the Crimson Trace (just squeeze) over the Laser Max and Insight Tech Laser on my 380 BG, (fine motor skill) but hopefully I will get use to the 380 BG in time.

Remember the first fast accurate shot goes home, and that needs to be you!
 
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