I thank God that I do........You shoot by invite only!
Crisis Intervention at the Range UPDATE 6/22!
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I thank God that I do........You shoot by invite only!
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crisis intervention at the range REBUTTAL!!!!
Hello:I have read the post originated by 6string and the replies.I would like to respond and tell the other side of the story.6 string states that an individual was about to fire a weapon while a competitor emerges from behind a barricade.This is not true.The handgun the accused was holding was unloaded,no magazine in the gun and the slide locked back.The second untruth is the fourth person walked up behind the person and punched him in a bad shoulder with a great deal of force startling the accused.The accused then turned around and replied;don't you ever do that again;There was no assault.The third untruth was the accused had a concealed weapon on his person,simply not true.What 6string failed to say was he was not even there so where did he get his information.This club has been in existence for 84 years and has never had an incident where a person was hurt.In all my years as a member of this club 6string has never attended any of our shoots.The RO that 6string has tried to crucify has helped more people than 6 string will ever know and is very safety conscious.The RO and the accused DID have a meeting about the incident with the accused standing up before the club and apologized.As for 6string,he really should have tried to participate in some of our shots.
Hello:I have read the post originated by 6string and the replies.I would like to respond and tell the other side of the story.6 string states that an individual was about to fire a weapon while a competitor emerges from behind a barricade.This is not true.The handgun the accused was holding was unloaded,no magazine in the gun and the slide locked back.The second untruth is the fourth person walked up behind the person and punched him in a bad shoulder with a great deal of force startling the accused.The accused then turned around and replied;don't you ever do that again;There was no assault.The third untruth was the accused had a concealed weapon on his person,simply not true.What 6string failed to say was he was not even there so where did he get his information.This club has been in existence for 84 years and has never had an incident where a person was hurt.In all my years as a member of this club 6string has never attended any of our shoots.The RO that 6string has tried to crucify has helped more people than 6 string will ever know and is very safety conscious.The RO and the accused DID have a meeting about the incident with the accused standing up before the club and apologized.As for 6string,he really should have tried to participate in some of our shots.
Clear as mud.
OP
To Primitive Pete, et al,
Immediately following the March event a written incident report was submitted, as per my duties as range officer, to the safety committee and club executive. The original complainant made a statement at that time. All pertinent individuals were given an opportunity to read it and make corrections and/or recommendations. An amended document was written and submitted, along with my recommendations quoting from the club bylaws.
After one more opportunity to review, with no issues from anyone including the original complainant and "match director", the document was accepted as a matter of club record.
The subsequent result was..... Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
It is for this reason that I started this thread, and it is from this document that I quoted.
***Did I ever happen to mention that the original transgressor happens to be the spouse of the club treasurer???***
(As Wise A posted earlier "I'd guess a bunch of board members and officers attend these shoots.")
I was stonewalled repeatedly while trying to get assistance (or even the courtesy of a reply!) from the club president, secretary, treasurer, or executive officer. Was the intent to drag things out until the issue just went away?
In fact, until I directly contacted the club membership, with a link to this thread, no effort at all had been made to even inform the membership that anything had happened.
It was only after this that the official narrative changed and an apology was made.
As for my participation in club "shoots", I was a member for 20 years. When I joined, it was a serious club. We ran sanctioned and/or approved matches with the NRA and USAS (the U.S. governing body of Olympic shooting events). I shot in every single match our club hosted, with every score submitted as a matter of national record. Many of us earned National Classifications in events like Free Pistol, Rapid Fire Pistol, Centerfire Pistol, Standard and Sport Pistol, etc.
However, neither Primitive Pete nor all but 2 or 3 other individuals have been members long enough to know this from firsthand experience.
When the official matches were dropped in favor of the "fun shoots", I found having loaded guns pointed at me on the firing line, behind the firing line, while changing targets, and even in the clubhouse meeting room, wasn't all that much fun.
As for the comment that the club "never had an incident where a person was hurt", ...big deal.
Put in context with mishandled weapons, not to mention rounds that have passed through the walls and ceiling only to exit out into the nearby community, that's just called dumb luck.
In closing, I would like to again thank all the knowledgeable forum members that have offered their input. I can only hope that the impact of your collective wisdom will help clubs assess the risk factors inherent in our chosen pastime.
Immediately following the March event a written incident report was submitted, as per my duties as range officer, to the safety committee and club executive. The original complainant made a statement at that time. All pertinent individuals were given an opportunity to read it and make corrections and/or recommendations. An amended document was written and submitted, along with my recommendations quoting from the club bylaws.
After one more opportunity to review, with no issues from anyone including the original complainant and "match director", the document was accepted as a matter of club record.
The subsequent result was..... Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
It is for this reason that I started this thread, and it is from this document that I quoted.
***Did I ever happen to mention that the original transgressor happens to be the spouse of the club treasurer???***
(As Wise A posted earlier "I'd guess a bunch of board members and officers attend these shoots.")
I was stonewalled repeatedly while trying to get assistance (or even the courtesy of a reply!) from the club president, secretary, treasurer, or executive officer. Was the intent to drag things out until the issue just went away?
In fact, until I directly contacted the club membership, with a link to this thread, no effort at all had been made to even inform the membership that anything had happened.
It was only after this that the official narrative changed and an apology was made.
As for my participation in club "shoots", I was a member for 20 years. When I joined, it was a serious club. We ran sanctioned and/or approved matches with the NRA and USAS (the U.S. governing body of Olympic shooting events). I shot in every single match our club hosted, with every score submitted as a matter of national record. Many of us earned National Classifications in events like Free Pistol, Rapid Fire Pistol, Centerfire Pistol, Standard and Sport Pistol, etc.
However, neither Primitive Pete nor all but 2 or 3 other individuals have been members long enough to know this from firsthand experience.
When the official matches were dropped in favor of the "fun shoots", I found having loaded guns pointed at me on the firing line, behind the firing line, while changing targets, and even in the clubhouse meeting room, wasn't all that much fun.
As for the comment that the club "never had an incident where a person was hurt", ...big deal.
Put in context with mishandled weapons, not to mention rounds that have passed through the walls and ceiling only to exit out into the nearby community, that's just called dumb luck.
In closing, I would like to again thank all the knowledgeable forum members that have offered their input. I can only hope that the impact of your collective wisdom will help clubs assess the risk factors inherent in our chosen pastime.
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Biggfoot44
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I wasn't there, don't know any of the people involved , but will make some general observations .
In an earlier age , in my Club active at the time ;
We weren't compulsive about having 47 ROs standing at everyone's elbows . The Rules were simple , and * Everyone * was expected to be a safety officer at all times .
Sanctioned Matches can be a Good Thing . Non-Sanctioned Club Matches also can be a Good Thing . We had a mixture of both , and I enjoyed both . ( Some Club Matches were moderately modeled upon a respective formal discipline , some were Original in concept .)No enherently right or wrong , just different .
For ranges with a fixed backstop , indeed having the proceedings move forward to the relevant distance is appropriate .
BUT when such activities took place the specific range ( we had a 200yd "rifle" range, and a 50yd " pistol " range, seperated by a high berm ) was closed to any shooters not participating in the Match for the duration .
Handling a firearm while anyone was down range was downrange would be a serious infraction , involving a Hearing with the Board .
Arguing / being disrespectful / being a jerk to any other Member functioning as de facto Safety Ofc was serious infraction in itself, requiring Hearing before the Board .
We were a well behaved enough bunch, I can't recall anyone actually expelled , and only a few suspensions .
In an earlier age , in my Club active at the time ;
We weren't compulsive about having 47 ROs standing at everyone's elbows . The Rules were simple , and * Everyone * was expected to be a safety officer at all times .
Sanctioned Matches can be a Good Thing . Non-Sanctioned Club Matches also can be a Good Thing . We had a mixture of both , and I enjoyed both . ( Some Club Matches were moderately modeled upon a respective formal discipline , some were Original in concept .)No enherently right or wrong , just different .
For ranges with a fixed backstop , indeed having the proceedings move forward to the relevant distance is appropriate .
BUT when such activities took place the specific range ( we had a 200yd "rifle" range, and a 50yd " pistol " range, seperated by a high berm ) was closed to any shooters not participating in the Match for the duration .
Handling a firearm while anyone was down range was downrange would be a serious infraction , involving a Hearing with the Board .
Arguing / being disrespectful / being a jerk to any other Member functioning as de facto Safety Ofc was serious infraction in itself, requiring Hearing before the Board .
We were a well behaved enough bunch, I can't recall anyone actually expelled , and only a few suspensions .
Rastoff
US Veteran
Thank you for replying. It's always good to hear other viewpoints.
It doesn't matter that 6 string wasn't personally present. You agree that someone was handling a firearm while someone else was down range. It doesn't matter that the gun was unloaded. That's a violation of safety protocol at any range I've ever been to and a violation of common sense.
You say that this range officer is helpful and safety conscious. 6string added three interesting quotes in the original post. One of which was, "I don't care what the rules say, I'm not changing how I run my matches one bit." Did the range officer actually say this?
This is really the largest issue here. Anyone who will make a statement like this is a liability to the club. If he's willing to state in a public forum that he doesn't care about the club rules and will do whatever he wants, why would any club tolerate that? Allowing that would completely undermine any authority the club has. It plainly states that anyone can do anything they want at this club. Are you really OK with that?
At my club he would be immediately removed from the membership.
The guy who thought he was in charge is a bleepin' idiot. Obviously, NO ONE was really in charge. The person with the bad reaction was definitely secondary to the major malfunction.
I would leave the club. My reason for owning a firearm (or two or three, or whatever) is to prolong my life. Being at that club would not, at first glance, seem to fit into the program. Of course, if you can still practice safely on some range other than where this idiot is "in charge," you might be OK staying with them, but I would avoid the evn the possibility of being a witness to what seems to be waiting to happen.
I would leave the club. My reason for owning a firearm (or two or three, or whatever) is to prolong my life. Being at that club would not, at first glance, seem to fit into the program. Of course, if you can still practice safely on some range other than where this idiot is "in charge," you might be OK staying with them, but I would avoid the evn the possibility of being a witness to what seems to be waiting to happen.
Bill McMillan.
Hmmm.... Just my 20 m$. Few of us were there. We're spread around the country; even other countries, perhaps. Yet there are widespread indictments and judgments floating around. Such is the internet, I suppose. Torches and pitchforks resulting from a couple recounts of the events.
We are often too quick to judge; particularly from a keyboard.
We are often too quick to judge; particularly from a keyboard.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't need to be there to say that if this statement...
"I don't care what the rules say, I'm not changing how I run my matches one bit."
...is true, the speaker needs to be removed. You guys can take whatever high road you want, call me quick to judge or a keyboard commando if you like, but that statement speaks volumes about the author.
"I don't care what the rules say, I'm not changing how I run my matches one bit."
...is true, the speaker needs to be removed. You guys can take whatever high road you want, call me quick to judge or a keyboard commando if you like, but that statement speaks volumes about the author.
Well, to put not too fine a point on it, the "author" of the post isn't the "speaker" being quoted, maybe accurately, maybe not, as far as we're led to believe . . .
I make a habit of not developing an absolute stance on things I didn't witness. I also avoid juvenile scatological references during otherwise adult discussions . . . .
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crisis intervention at the range REBUTTAL!!!!
6string once again you have elected to tell an untruth as you state all pertinent people were given a chance to review the complaintinents statement.The accused was not given a chance to review this so called statement.The treasurer which is also a member of the executive committee was also not given the opportunity to review the statement.Now you come up and say the transgressors wife is the club treasurer.What does this have to do with your complaint?Are we going to stoop down and start slinging mud now?well you have stated that you are quitting the club so I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors.Please try to get along with the club members at your future club.
6string once again you have elected to tell an untruth as you state all pertinent people were given a chance to review the complaintinents statement.The accused was not given a chance to review this so called statement.The treasurer which is also a member of the executive committee was also not given the opportunity to review the statement.Now you come up and say the transgressors wife is the club treasurer.What does this have to do with your complaint?Are we going to stoop down and start slinging mud now?well you have stated that you are quitting the club so I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors.Please try to get along with the club members at your future club.
We are so done here..
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