Curious about reflex/red dots for my 686 Competitor

[Rick016]

Let me start by saying two things:
#1 I don't know much about them.
#2 The search function won't cooperate with me
on my phone, so I apologize if any of this has
been covered already.

My 686 Competitor is supposed to be in some
time this week and being that is supposed to be
optics ready, I've been contemplating picking up
a cheap reflex or red dot off eBay, so I've got a
few questions to make sure I get one that will
work. I won't be hunting or anything, I just think
it could be fun to have.

The ones I've seen on eBay indicate a size, one I
saw said 11mm-22mm, another said 20mm. What
does this mean and what will work for the
Competitor? I looked on S&W's website, but it
doesn't list any such measurement that I saw.

What's the difference between a red dot and a reflex?

If I would get one, I wouldn't necessarily want it on
all the time. I assume it varies from model to model,
but in general, are they easy to mount and unmount?

And continuing on that train of thought, would
mounting optics leave marks on the barrel? I'm
not even sure how they mount. If they do leave
marks is there some way to prevent that? Might be
a deal breaker if it's going to mark her up.

 

[zelda]

l got a 686 Competitor with my tax refund last year, but 2015 l had to PAY To console me a bit DAD installed a cute little TRS-25 red dot on my Competitor. l may now finally shoot the thing

 

[wantmoresmiths]

Let me suggest that you go to check out you tube and find information on both red dots and reflex sights. Here is a pretty good article explaining the differences. Red Dot Sights / Reflex Sights & Holosights Explained Your choice will be dependent on how you plan on using your 686. A lot of competition shooters use the reflex sights (C-More, Burris fast fire, and Leupold Delta point) although they are sometime affected by the amount of sunlight. I personally prefer a red dot, even for competition. Since your 686 has a built in Picatinny rail, you will be able to mount almost any red dot or reflex sight since most can be purchased with a mount for a picatinney rail. The picatinney mounting system does make putting the sight on and taking it off very easy, and it won't mar the guns finish.

The size refers to the diameter of the lens. The bigger the lens, the larger the field of view.

Most important - don't waste your money on the cheap optics (red dot or reflex) they may be OK for your .22, but magnum loads will shake them apart in no time. Even mid range loads will take their toll pretty quickly. The reflex sights I listed above will hold up very well. I'm especially fond of the Ultra-Dot (match dot) red dot sight. Check out the optics planet web site. It will make your head spin with the choices.

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

...I don't know much about them.
....

The revolver is drilled and tapped already. The holes are under the rear sight assembly. Remove the rear sight and install a "Weaver style" scope base. An aluminum base should cost about $7, and would be sold at any decent sporting goods store with a good size firearm department. It will come with the necessary screws to attach it to the gun.

Here's one on Amazon. It's a little more due to shipping. You can pay a lot more for other brands and types of bases, but this one is as good as any of them.....

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Weaver-Detachable-Top-Mt-Base-48001/dp/B001DBBINS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1434862096&sr=8-11&keywords=weaver+base+smith+wesson"]Amazon.com : Weaver Detachable Top-Mt Base Slv 401S Base 48001 : Airsoft Gun Scope Mounts : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Irts8XSuL.@@AMEPARAM@@41Irts8XSuL[/ame]

If you buy a tube style red-dot you'll need Weaver style rings to attach the tube to the base. Most reflex style optics have weaver style clamp built into the bottom of the sight. Look for one that has that feature - the built in Weaver clamp. They're very common and it just saves you having to buy another thing.

This Vector sight on Amazon is what I'm talking about. There's at least a half dozen companies that make a similar $50 sight (plus/minus), and they probably all come from the same factory in China. If you don't mind spending $200 - $300 there are some much better ones from Burris, Docter, and Leupold that are real quality items. See how the Vector has the built in Weaver clamp on the bottom?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Vector-Optics-Sphinx-Quality-Green/dp/B00JQW0RB0/ref=sr_1_17?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1434862556&sr=1-17&keywords=reflex+sight&refinements=p_72%3A1248957011%2Cp_36%3A4000-6000"]Amazon.com : Vector Optics Sphinx High Quality Mini Green Dot Sight : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41S%2B4mkiZ2L.@@AMEPARAM@@41S%2B4mkiZ2L[/ame]

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

It just occurred to me the Competitor has the built in weaver slots already machined into the barrel. In which case you would NOT need to buy a base. The optic will attach direct to the barrel. Personally, I wouldn't like a dot sight that far out on the barrel. I'd prefer to have it closer to my eye and the focal plane of the rear sight, which is more natural to me. So, I'd probably go ahead and get a Weaver base and mount it as I described in my prior post, with the rear sight assembly removed. But that's your call.

 

[Rick016]

Let me suggest that you go to check out you tube and find information on both red dots and reflex sights. Here is a pretty good article explaining the differences. Red Dot Sights / Reflex Sights & Holosights Explained Your choice will be dependent on how you plan on using your 686. A lot of competition shooters use the reflex sights (C-More, Burris fast fire, and Leupold Delta point) although they are sometime affected by the amount of sunlight. I personally prefer a red dot, even for competition. Since your 686 has a built in Picatinny rail, you will be able to mount almost any red dot or reflex sight since most can be purchased with a mount for a picatinney rail. The picatinney mounting system does make putting the sight on and taking it off very easy, and it won't mar the guns finish.

The size refers to the diameter of the lens. The bigger the lens, the larger the field of view.

Most important - don't waste your money on the cheap optics (red dot or reflex) they may be OK for your .22, but magnum loads will shake them apart in no time. Even mid range loads will take their toll pretty quickly. The reflex sights I listed above will hold up very well. I'm especially fond of the Ultra-Dot (match dot) red dot sight. Check out the optics planet web site. It will make your head spin with the choices.

Thanks for the info. The link was informative. The problem with the sights you listed is that they cost anywhere from $200 - $500. I'm not looking to spend that much. As I said, I won't be hunting or doing any competitions. This is just, for lack of a better phrase, a new toy for me. As long as it isn't going to mark up the barrel, I may buy one of the cheap ones and chance it. If it breaks and I'm out $20-$50, I wouldn't be overly upset, but I'm not looking to spend a couple hundred on one. Maybe I could get away with only using it when shooting .38 specials.

 

[socal s&w]

I have had a Leupold 'Gilmore' dot sight on an older 686 Competitor revolver since 2005 without issue. They are no longer made and have been out of manufacture for some time, however they are available from time to time on ebay. (There are 2 of them on ebay currently as a matter of fact.) You don't want the first generation, or round one, you want the second generation, the six-sided one.

They have a 30mm lens diameter which is in my opinion the best as it opens up the 'tunnel' that most tube dots tend to have.

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

The problem with the sights you listed is that they cost anywhere from $200 - $500.

The Vector sight I linked to was about fifty bucks. They make'em cheaper, but those get real sketchy.

 

[Rick016]

Ok, checked out a few, saw some cheap Bushnells and some unbranded ones. Came across this Vector Optics, price isn't bad and it has a quick release.

Vector Optics Heavy Duty Digital Tactical 4 Reticle Holo Reflex Sight | eBay

Anyone care to weigh in on this one?

 

[Bearbait in NM]

Rick,

I have been fiddling with red dot sights on pistols and revolvers for a lot of years now, and you have gotten good advice above.

The optic that you just linked is on a base designed more an AR15 type application. It would work on your gun, but the sight plus that base would be very tall. I tend to like my setups a lot lower.

You are going to find any red dot sight is going to be a hunt and peck type deal for while, finding the dot. Just for play/plinking, any height may not matter, but is worth considering.

If you are really concerned with the sight/base marring your gun, be sure to get a base that is aluminum. I have had bases that were aluminum, but the locking bar (the c-shaped metal clamp that gets tightened) was steel. You can put light marks on the gun, if not careful. And while the weight of most of these sights is on the light side, you will want to make sure that with whatever cross slot bolt/pin/block goes across the slot, is positioned to the front of the slot, when mounting. Under recoil, the gun will move back, and the sight and base will want to "move" forward.

Craig

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

... the sight plus that base would be very tall. ...

I don't agree at all. A relex sight on a Weaver base is about as low as any other optic. A tube style scope or sight, and many other types of red dots, are about as tall. Some would be taller.

Reflex sights are ideal for handguns. The fact that they've been adopted to AR type rifles does not diminish that. It just illustrates how practical they are.

Here's another members gun. I'd set mine up pretty much exactly like this.......

 

[Macinaw]

Don't buy a cheap one. You will regret it. MidwayUSA.com usually has C-More Railway Red Dot on sale for $208. It will last a long time and is worth every penny.

 

[qballwill]

I have a vortex SPARC II on my 686. They run right under $200 but you can't get better quality for that price anywhere else. I use mine for shooting 50yd plates.

 

[Rick016]

In what manner will I regret it? If we're talking it's going to
break in some way or the quality isn't as good as a $200+
sight, that isn't as big a deal to me as that it might mar my
$1000+ revolver. So, can we dispense with the vague
warnings?

 

[series guy]

Here's the deal on cheap dots. I have witnessed this first hand. Number one they are often difficult to sight in. The adjustments are usually imprecise. Number two after you do get it sighted as well as you can they often fail after fifty or a hundred rounds. We can be generous and say two hundred rounds. Off it comes and back to the store or manufacturer it goes for replacement. Now go to the range to sight your gun in again. Repeat as necessary. I watched a friend do this three times with a Performance Center .44 magnum. With the gas to drive to the range and the ammo to repeatedly sight in your gun plus the early termination of your fun times at the range It's very clear that a cheap optic is a very false economy. You obviously recognize quality since you bought a Smith and Wesson. If you are unsure if you will like a dot buy a used one on eBay to save some money. I have purchased six or eight Tasco ProPoints (the older ones made in Japan) for $30 to $50 and only one has ever failed. I now have three guns with the Allchin mounts and Burris Fastfire IIIs and couldn't be happier. It pains the pocket to order them but the pleasure shooting is priceless.

 

[Rick016]

Ok, so, the Tasco ProPoint is an ok cheap one is what your saying?
Found one on eBay:

Tasco BKRD3022 Propoint 1x30mm Red Dot Scope for 22 5 MOA 046162080221 | eBay

Priced cheaply and while the main listing says for .22 rimfire the
description specifically says it will handle handguns up to a .357 mag.
The only thing that concerns me is that it appears to simply mount
with screws. This goes back to my marring concern.

Thoughts?

 

[jstanfield103]

One comment that I will make on red dots is that the smaller the MOA dot the better. I would not want one that was bigger than 3 and smaller than that if I could find one. I have had a couple of Millet SP1 on pistols and they worked pretty good but I did not have them on a 357 magnum like ours so I really don't know. But the smaller the dot the more you will enjoy it.

 

[Rick016]

One comment that I will make on red dots is that the smaller the MOA dot the better. I would not want one that was bigger than 3 and smaller than that if I could find one. I have had a couple of Millet SP1 on pistols and they worked pretty good but I did not have them on a 357 magnum like ours so I really don't know. But the smaller the dot the more you will enjoy it.

Good to know J. I'm getting really anxious for it to arrive, it's like Christmas in before July, lol.

 

[series guy]

Your link is for a propoint for .22s. Not the way to go for your gun. You have to look at the photos in the auction for the made in Japan.

 

[jstanfield103]

Rick, I find that anything bigger than a 3 drowns out the targets. It just covers them up. My opinion only.